Australian Rally Grand Final

[Spac]

Originally Posted by fro

And complaints about class winners not getting recognition are fair enough, I reckon. Hence, I'd suggest something more akin to:

• - Top 3 crews from each State Championship
• - Top State P6 crew*
• - Top State P4 crew*
• - Top State P3/N3 crew*
• - Top State P2/N2 crew*
• - Top State P1/N1 crew
• - Top One-make Series contender (Excel Series for NSW/Vic/SA, Gemini/Pocket Rocket for Qld - additional P2 crew for WA/Tas)
• - 1 "wildcard" entry nominated by the relevant RAP (eg. Clubman winner/up & comer)

* - that isn't in the top 3 of the State Championship.

If any crew on that list can't make it to the Grand Final, then their place should be made available to the next best placed crew (eg: Woody wins P1 again, but the GFinal is on the day that his second child is due to be born, then the second placed P1 punter gets offered the drive).
If you only had three P1 point-scorers and none of them could make it to the GFinal, then I don't know what you should do... Replacing them with a P2 crew would be unfair, and I'm not sure that just taking any available P1 crew (no matter how slow they are) would do the whole GF concept any favours.

Anyway, the idea is a good one.

[DaveTrees]

Originally Posted by fro

There's a bit of variety in the rules/make-up/regulations of the various states Clubman and Novice Series. And complaints about class winners not getting recognition are fair enough, I reckon. Hence, I'd suggest something more akin to:

• - Top 3 crews from each State Championship
• - Top State P6 crew*
• - Top State P4 crew*
• - Top State P3/N3 crew*
• - Top State P2/N2 crew*
• - Top State P1/N1 crew
• - Top One-make Series contender (Excel Series for NSW/Vic/SA, Gemini/Pocket Rocket for Qld - additional P2 crew for WA/Tas)
• - 1 "wildcard" entry nominated by the relevant RAP (eg. Clubman winner/up & comer)

* - that isn't in the top 3 of the State Championship.

Yeah - some good ideas there - definitely should include the winner of the Excel series (or equivalent) in each state.

From a Vic perspective, there are a LOT of clubman & novice level competitors who rarely if ever compete in a VRC round .... because there is pretty much a standalone series for them (the VCRS). The top clubman & novice drivers in Victoria may well be in this series rather than doing the state championship - but I am sure there would be ways around it to make it work !

Maybe we should include the top Classic crew from each state too .... and run them at the front of the field

[fro]

Originally Posted by DaveTrees

From a Vic perspective, there are a LOT of clubman & novice level competitors who rarely if ever compete in a VRC round .... because there is pretty much a standalone series for them (the VCRS). The top clubman & novice drivers in Victoria may well be in this series rather than doing the state championship - but I am sure there would be ways around it to make it work !

Maybe this would be a carrot to help encourage them to step up to the VRC?*

* - Yes, I understand the budget/regulation/other considerations that also seperate levels of competition...

[tortfeaser]

The key is not to regulate who goes, but state clearly the intentions, purpose and classes competing and let state RAPs decide.

[fro]

Originally Posted by tortfeaser

The key is not to regulate who goes, but state clearly the intentions, purpose and classes competing

Keeping fair representation from each state should be a factor. If everyone just sends the top ten, that's cool, but that's what should be stated.

I'd personally like to see class competition displayed and recognised, hence my suggestion.

[Swill]

Should be 2wd only

[fro]

Originally Posted by YRALLY

Should be 2wd only

We've got that Grand Final already... I think it's called "Alpine".

[tortfeaser]

Yeah, your suggestion is good, and I'd like to see classes rather than just outright. But because of the differences between each state championship its impossible to write regs without screwing something up. So state clearly the intention (O/R, classes, 2WD champ, whatever) and let the panels sort it.

[Ian Bigg]

Once you have had a chance to think about it please make sure you do the survey thing and put your ideas in there ... longer discussions / suggestions etc should be put in an email and sent to me ...

[ropie]

70 rally cars in Alice Springs something to see for the Grand Final.

Alice Springs of course as everyone from all the states would travel the same distance and no one would have local knowledge advantage.

And after the last rally of the season, about December, GF date would be later? Pretty hot in central aust then.

OK, its tongue-in-cheek, but really, where would you have it?

[fro]

I'm sure the Grand Final location would be a hot-topic.

Other disciplines that have a Single-Event Championship (Hillclimb, Motorkhana) have it on a roster/rotational system. I would think it would have to be the same for this?

[craig n]

it should be pacenoted so there is no local advantage and so everybody would be on pacenotes (not just the people who cheat) yeh people will carry on about pacenotes this & that .BUT if it is to be a grand final it should be fair & the best crews should win.

[SHEPPO R.]

the pace vs non pace note question is a very hard one.
i think some states have pace noted state champs ( VIC & SA ?) and some blind rally.
a team that does blind rallies all year and is thrown into a pace note event at the end of the year against teams that have done pace noted events all year will be at a disadvantage, and vise versa.
then a pace noted event in different states can add advantage to home teams. the roads used for the VIC ARC (i dont know about other vic state events) are in general open shire roads, that can be (and have been) driven many times by locals at any time . i know a VIC local who dove to work once a week on ARC stages all year !!. Pretty much all QLD ARC and STATE level roads are closed, so you see them once a year on a blind event.

Personally, drop the lead ARC team idea, cupla reasons.
ARC may introduce factory teams, cars, tyres... no fair prickly bear.
I think the whole idea is a STATE grand final, so why bring ARC into it, as much as i like simon & sue, what will the ARC champs winning another rally prove to any of us.
ARC teams on pace notes vs state teams use to blind rallies on pace notes, the gap will be worse than ever.

an idea... rather than the event at the end of the year, have it at the start of the next year. A team doing at state title during the year does not know if they have to allocate money, time , travel for the GF , and would not know untill aprox nov ( in QLD case ), but once all the titles are finished, all the invitees know they would have a few months to build the GF to their budgets and "timing" held early the next year ( late feb-march).

in general, love the idea, just cant imagine all the head aches putting it together.....
ps. i have a $100 that the poor bastard who takes on the job of a seeding list, will seriously consider suicide.

reg.

[Jme]

I think...

The event MUST have a prologue to determine starting order.

The event MUST be pacenoted. Local knowledge is just too strong of an advantage (and the locals will go out and have a look). The only way I know to limit that is to pacenote the roads.

The event qualification MUST reward higher level competitors in competitive classes, not a bloke who manages to dodge all competition in a given class.

As the event is aimed at showcasing the 2008 State series to a national TV audience, we MUST promote modern cars. If the event is full of Datsun 1600and LA Lancers it will be an embarrasment.

The class structure put up before doesn't include P5 and N4. These are the 2 most competitive classes for Outright. If it is a grandfinal, these "higher level" classes need to be favoured.

What do we have 10 entries? Ok- I know this will be unpopular, but I don't give a rats...

Top 3 in the State Series would get automatic qualification, then Individual State Series rally winners, and then Individual State Series placegetters. If we still don't have 10 runners, I'd go down the Outright State Championship list to fill the field.

So basically- no 2wds. No old dungers. It's 2008... the past is gone. Why would we ruin a concept like this aimed at expanding our sport by catering for highly-modified out dated cars, and running it on a crappy roadbook?

It means that the average clubby competitor finds this competition out of reach... that's good. It's not for average clubman competitors- It's for higher level state competitors IMO. The rules should cater for them.

These competitors are already shafted by the driver grading system, and vehicle eligibilty. The rally panel has promoted this "exclusion" for years, and to now cater for grade 3 or lower drivers, would be in my opinion hypocritical.

Ian... when you get the surveys back... maybe put a big star next to the grade 1 and 2 crews who have supported the ARC/NSW series etc over the years and consider the opinions of these people. Put a big star next to the ex- "front of the field" competitors the NSW series has lost over the years and consider their opinions. It's only fair given the current structure of the sport.

[Jme]

Look at this thread... it starts at post 27.

Craig is the first driver to post who A) has the ability to win the thing B) is a genuine state level competitor or higher C) has the availability of a competitive car etc etc

First thing he said was... PACENOTES. Give me an even chance or I'm not interested.

The Rally Panel won't cater for State Level competitors. They'll cater for the classes, and old dunger dato's and a few classics and excels. It will be crap.

I'll make the whole thing easy. Make me captain, and let me pick the side.

Goldy, Barker, Thommo, Sullens, Darbs, Roberts, Boaden, Craig, Giddo, Williams, Mitchell, Croker x2, Shaw etc. If I gotta pick in classes... Goldy can run his Dato, Craig will punt the Mirage, Roberts in a Commodore, Darbs in an RX2, Crokers in the 180B.