Australian Rally Grand Final

[Factor]

As is so usual we are force fed a diatribe of why JME is so right

I'll limit myself to one or two observations:

What about the Grade 1 and 2 competitors? Who's catering for them Fro? If they are Grade 1 and 2- they've done their time, they've spent the money so your point about Woody is muted.

think jon and I have individually and together run enough events over the last 35 years to sort of earn our stripes. So let me tell ya pal, there are plenty of people out there catering for us, Narooma, bega the bay, is all we can probably fit in (as well as being officials on at least five other events) - if we won lotto I reckon there is probably a rally every weeknd we could enjoy doing. And let me tell you if we won lotto we wouldnt be using a Evo Rex either. Not that there is anything wrong with people who choose to, just not our cup of tea.

If YOU were to promote a decision which allowed a newbie N1 competitor to attend this GrandFinal, over say a NSW State Series stalwart like Chris Giddens, it would be embarrasing. I can't promote that concept.

Thats okay - you haven't promoted an event so far that I have ever noticed (yes I am being pedanticly sarcastic in my use of the term promoter). My point being you are always very quick to tell organisers how do do stuff - monolithically slow in offerring to do it.

But I have no doubts that the NSW Rally Panel will push the "non-outright" agenda

Get on the panel then and change the view - oh sorry thats right - your idea of contribution to the sport is being opiniated on this web site.

FFS just once do something that involves humbly contributing to the sport - just once.

Oh and speaking as you do of dungers - bout time you stopped competing in Evo 3s thay are a bit long in the tooth , even the best of them is getting on 15 years.

[Factor]

To be a little more positive

Forget TV and Forget supposed to be the pinnacle. What matters is that the people who have competed and been succseful in their part of Australia have a chance to to mix it with others of similar ilk. I can aleardy pick who the likely winners in formula evorex could be, you compare steve shep and the arc field in qld and compare a similarly in Rally Melb etc - you can get a bit of an idea.

Much harder to get an idea re some of the smaller capacity classes. As for two wheel drive - it would be very interetsing to see scooter up against Carl and clod and others. In fact I would pay admission to see that battle.

What ever the various RAPS come up with Cost is going to be a big key factor in the success of the event.

When I were lad playing the working man's game and we had games interstate we used to have people billett us. It was a great way to be able to afford to go to play interstate and provided a sens eof community. Perhaps where ever the event is held we could encourage the locals to "adopt" a visiting team

I would be more than happy to host someone if it were Bris-vegas. I am sure we can develop similar cost saving initiatives if we try.

This is not about TV and image and dungers or no dungers - it is about poeple enjoying an opportunity to mix it with others at their level.

[Rallyray]

Originally Posted by Factor

When I were lad playing the working man's game and we had games interstate we used to have people billett us. It was a great way to be able to afford to go to play interstate and provided a sens eof community. Perhaps where ever the event is held we could encourage the locals to "adopt" a visiting team

Good idea. I'd be definately keen for that.

Hell, If its run in Canberra I could organise camping for nearly everyone at a farm.

[Stewy]

Originally Posted by Factor

Forget TV and Forget supposed to be the pinnacle. What matters is that the people who have competed and been succseful in their part of Australia have a chance to to mix it with others of similar ilk.

Spot on I would love to see how Claude or myself or anyone else would stack up to the rest of Australia, it would be worth the once a year trip interstate to have a go. Hey it would be my only chance to go higher than inter school sport as I sucked at anything swimming, or athletic

[afifield]

JME's already had a moan (or three) about having to pay the $5 levy to play in the little clubman pond, but how would people feel about a $5/car/event levy to go towards funding the competitors at the grand final? Either split evenly, or on a % per car/class? I'd be happy to do it this way, even knowing that we're no chance of going to the event.

The grand final concept is a great one. I think the biggest hurdles for most people would be the budget and timing. If we can ease the budget issue, and find the right time, I think it'll be a success.


Hmmmm....just did the sums. It might need to be a bit more than $5.

[DaveTrees]

Originally Posted by Factor

This is not about TV and image and dungers or no dungers - it is about poeple enjoying an opportunity to mix it with others at their level.

[DaveTrees]

Originally Posted by afifield

If we can ease the budget issue, and find the right time, I think it'll be a success

You'll never find the "perfect" timing that suits everyone ..... just pick a date & do it - people will either get there or not.

[Kagan]

's alright, Kagan doesn't seem to think much else exists beyond a 100km radius around Canberra

Not unless its East!!!! And living approx. 50ks out of Canberra, I can't venture to far from my home either!!!

[legend]

why is everyone so obsessed with TV? So grant Denyer can drive half a rally?

And if you must be obsessed with TV, why assume that everyone wants to watch 4wd turbos. say with me class: they are bloody boring.

people flock to the speedway to watch 'dungers' all the time.

personally I reckon the way to get a berth is not to choose cars, but to choose states. There's a bloke in Qld who runs in the top 5 outright in a 240K. Think what he'd do tasmania.

so here's my proposal. that abovementioned bloke from qld, his mate in the other 240k, and me. north coast of NSW. 3 cars. one winner. focus.

[Ric Cary]

Whilst forgetting TV etc is all well and good, The premise behind the Grand Final is to get major corporate sponsors for each state team the way I read it. So that in itself brings media expectations
eg return on investment
And display the fastest cars and crews from each state at one event. So whilst we may wax lyrical about the purity of the competition and the fact that a P1 competitor has equal entitlements the bottom line will and should be the best of the best, and no it is not a pseudo ARC, actually I reckon if it is carefully planned the ARC will be at the spectator points drooling, all 15 of em!!

[Jme]

Look, I'm a pot-stirrer I don't have a problem with classes being recognised, or 2wd cars.

The tone of this thread suggests that the vast majority of rally competitors don't make much distinction between clubman and state level competitors... so I ask- Why do we have a clubman championship?

I don't care what's written- State and Clubman levels are pretty much blurred into one once you get into the non-outright classes.

Maybe the best solution is to get rid of the Clubman series altogether, and then get rid of the out-dated grading list. Replace it with some recognition (to meet CAMS regs) based on seeding list speed. Is this where we are heading?


Stewy- I don't disagree with what you say. But the fact remains that some classes are harder to "kick goals" in. I know you and Claude are good competitors and all that, but if you consider your potential as drivers, and wish to progress you need to ditch the Datsuns, get into a 4wd, and learn pacenotes. Look at Dave King... as much as the bloke is a good mate of mine, he has blown all that ability. I reckon I got Cam Wallers VR4 during the week for less than you guys spend on your Datsuns, based soley on the philosophy that you don't turn up to a gun-fight carrying a stick.

If we are turning up to this fight... I'd like to see the guys who have the biggest guns front up... not a talented few holding sticks.

Either way, this GF thing will go a long way to defining the structure of our sport, and that is needed- cause most will agree that at the moment there are issues.

[legend]

Originally Posted by Jme

I don't care what's written- State and Clubman levels are pretty much blurred into one once you get into the non-outright classes.

Maybe the best solution is to get rid of the Clubman series altogether,

the difference between state and clubman is that at clubman level cars and people don't burn. Its only when you turn up to state rounds do you suddenly have a grave safety concern I reckon get rid of the state series, and only have clubman. that'd stuff their stupid rules right up.

I know you and Claude are good competitors and all that, but if you consider your potential as drivers, and wish to progress you need to ditch the Datsuns, get into a 4wd

What if they like their Datsuns? What if it gives them personal satisfaction knock all you 4wd blokes off in their 30 year old cars?

I reckon I got Cam Wallers VR4 during the week for less than you guys spend on your Datsuns,

what's cam doing now? Get him back in a Datsun where he belongs.

Either way, this GF thing will go a long way to defining the structure of our sport, and that is needed- cause most will agree that at the moment there are issues.

GF's have gone along way to defining our involvement in the sport in the past. lets not let them dictate the structure now as well.

[Miss]

Originally Posted by legend

What if they like their Datsuns? What if it gives them personal satisfaction knock all you 4wd blokes off in their 30 year old cars?

*cough*it's closer to 40, and it's not just the drivers*cough*

[fro]

If I go play hockey/soccer/cricket/footy of various descriptions, there's Grand Finals for 1st Division, and b-grade, and beer-grade. Rallying's Grand Final should be inclusive enough to cater for all our classes.

Bahh, no analogies work. I think that all classes should be represented (as they are at every rally), Jme thinks it's just about the big guns. The big guns aren't the sport. They are part of the sport.

Originally Posted by Jme

Either way, this GF thing will go a long way to defining the structure of our sport, and that is needed- cause most will agree that at the moment there are issues.

One event shouldn't define the sport... Ferfuxakes, the sport is about variation (in conditions, in roads, in vehicles, in competitors, in events), the last thing we need is more same-ness. Isn't one of the complaints of the current ARC that it's so ****ing formulaic?

[Jme]

The State GF "feedback process" may well better define the sport as "class-based" at state level and maybe competition will improve because of that. However, there is no getting away from the fact that the sport will always have a degree of being about the "big-guns".

I may have a more open and balanced view in a few days when I have less methotrexate running through me but at this point in time- we have a driver grading system which labels competitors and vehicles as either Clubman eligible or Clubman ineligible. I'd like to see the State GF cater primarily for those competitors and vehicles which the clubman series doesn't cater for ie.Outright P5/N4, Grade 1 and 2 drivers.

Theoretically... that is a sound philosophy. If you wanna get to the State Grand Final... get yourself graded out of clubman, or get an outright car. Yes, it caters for the big guns. I make no apologies for that. They deserve the opportunity... they have proven themselves to be that level of competitor.

If we aren't going to embrace the driver grading system, or clubman system... why have them? Get rid of them and replace them with something meaningful. At the moment they both suck. (Did I use the word suck correctly Spac?)

Now for the simple version... everyone count to 3......... 1, 2, 3. 1 equals ARC, 2 equals State, and 3 equals Clubman. We are concerned with number 2... the level directly below the ARC- State level. If you are eligible for clubman.... you are number 3. If you are a number 3- enter a few rallies, get some results,buy a different car- whatever- and become clubman ineligible- then start talking about the GF.