New Forum Rules

[legend]

Originally Posted by JS

This would be much easier than trying to be reasonable with people who have all day, and no meaningfull job, .......

Originally Posted by factor

I remember a bloke called JS that used to be a rally driver

and I knew a JS who was in real estate.

[JS]

All good ranters= zero tolerance

[Rallyray]

Originally Posted by legend

and I knew a JS who was in real estate.

And I knew a JS who got asked at King O'Malleys "Are you looking for your daughter???"

[Rhys Llewellyn]

There has been much discussion regarding the new rules and their enforcement.
So, how is it going?
How many people have been suspended and how many posts have been removed?
Over the last few days I have seen semi personal attacks made and negative comments made about organising groups. However, I see no response from the mods.
I appreciate what you are trying to achieve, but there doesn't seem to be any follow up.

[TKM]

Apparently you get banned for saying fug. Unless you're a mate of the moderator, then your ***, ****, or ****ers only gets moderated. Talk about inconsistency

[Eco-velocity therapy]

On Tues night the BMSC Committee established a working group to conduct a review of Forum issues.

This group will report back at the Feb Committee meeting.

In the meantime, we need to keep in mind that the Mods are not full time employees and some items may take some time to review.

In the meantime, the recently new rules (the many page version) will apply. My interpretation of how they will be applied is:
- personal attacks and allegations are not permitted
- constructive and professional language is required (there remains debate about abreviations or disguised words - sufficient to say it is likely to be context specific (eg a joke, an attack, or appropriate in context)).

My personal view is that constructive discussion of the issues facing the sport will be allowed to continue, provided it is focused on identifying the issue and then constructive discussion of solutions. Just bagging things and 'sinking the boot in' achieves nothing, other than making the sport weaker and doing more damage.

I am the chairperson of this working group and would be pleased to receive your thoughts by PM

cheers
Peter Norton

[Alex101]

Originally Posted by Eco-velocity therapy

Just bagging things and 'sinking the boot in' achieves nothing, other than making the sport weaker and doing more damage.

Assumed translation
"From what I have read, the new rules are making the sport weaker and forming a rift betwen ACT rallying. One rule for one and another rule for another."

[Rhys Llewellyn]

Sorry for bringing this up here again Perter, but I cannot seem to PM you.

Isn't the current ARC thread just putting the boot in? It now seems that people are being named.

Surely this is what you said would not be tollerated.

For the record, I think the thread is very informative. If it wasn't for this tread and others, I would not have suspected CAMS to be in trouble.

Confused.

[Rallyray]

Thanks for the holiday... I had a great time.

[Eco-velocity therapy]

Originally Posted by Rhys Llewellyn

Sorry for bringing this up here again Perter, but I cannot seem to PM you.

Isn't the current ARC thread just putting the boot in? It now seems that people are being named.

Surely this is what you said would not be tollerated.

For the record, I think the thread is very informative. If it wasn't for this tread and others, I would not have suspected CAMS to be in trouble.

Confused.

Rhys

I am not sure why the PM is not working. I have recived some in the last few days, but I was expecting some others (??)

You can get me at peternorton at ozemail dot com dot au

Yes, the ARC thread is a problem. Had some important information, followed by some people putting the boot in. I don't understand why people are so happy to see the top level of our sport in bad shape, or perhaps they don't understand that their comments are not helping things.

Perhaps hardline censorship of this forum is the only way to .... (the BMSC constitution has an objective clause that says something like) ... promote the development of the sport.

While open discussion of the issues is important, we (everyone posting here) struggle getting the balance right - with great damage being the result.

...this stuff is not easy

[KPW]

Peter, I think there's a misconception among some on the committee that the BMSC "owns" this forum. This has never been the case, and never can be. The BMSC leases the hardware, and owns the software licenses, it can never own the intangible i.e. the many and varied users of this site and the input they bring here. The BMSC should value those users, and in return those users should value the infrastructure and work that is put into this site. But the club cannot, and must not, claim 'ownership' of this forum any longer.

You are obviously right to say that this stuff is not easy. The BMSC's committee, particularly it's executive, must weigh up the value of this forum to the club against the perceived risks, and I emphasise the word perceived. If the club decides that heavy moderation is needed then the community will simply re-establish itself elsewhere. I do not exaggerate when I tell you that a new domain and vBulletin installation can be established on a new server within 15 minutes, possibly less.

I haven't replied to your PM yet about participating in the sub-committee that has been formed as I'm considering what value I could bring that can't just as easily be expressed here in the open.

I guess what I'm saying is that moderation must be absolutely minimal, as it always has been, or the community that form this site will simply find somewhere they can express themselves more freely. The club cannot control "aggro" within the sport by heavily moderating this forum because the same aggro will simply pop up under another domain name. The club's operation of this forum is a binary state, it's got it or it doesn't, there's no parlous state in between where everything is beer and skittles and we all sit around singing kum bi yar.

I've got annoyed many times in the past with the blatant use of this site to damage the club, the club's events, and to poach members (it was a contributing reason, to me walking away from the webmaster role, but not the only reason), but I'm also realistic enough to know that there is little, if anything, that can be done. As above, to censor will simply see the same vitriol move elsewhere.

Personally I like the old performance forum disclaimer... "if you insist on being a dickhead then you'll be banned".... end of rules. In the anarchy of cyberspace that's about the best you're going to get

I've a few more thoughts, but I've gotta go do christmas groceries. So to sum up, merry christmas to all, happy new year, and good luck in 2008, especially with your rallying endeavours, and FUG, WTF, FFS, WGAFF.. etc.

[tortfeaser]

Originally Posted by Eco-velocity therapy

Perhaps hardline censorship of this forum is the only way to .... (the BMSC constitution has an objective clause that says something like) ... promote the development of the sport.

It has nothing of that sort. Perhaps you should read it?

And even if it did mention developing the sport as one of the objects, how would having a forum of happy tree friends holding hands and singing kumbayah advance the sport? Unless its problems are aired publicly, discussed fully, and potential solutions considered, then the current situation will persist.

Unless you lance the boil and free the pus it will fester and become more and more painful.

Let the pus run free!

[tortfeaser]

Bwah! Didn't read Karl's post first. Top effort that, two thumbs up, summarises it perfectly.

[Rallyray]

And seriously, the Forum has only really been an issue over the last 2 months since the enforcement of the rules... Before that it was ok...

And even more seriously, the rules were only introduced because one or two individuals slagged off some prominent members of the Rallying Community... they should suffer the wrath of the mods. Not everyone.

From Someone who is not a member of the BMSC but considers the BMSC forum as a extremely useful Rally Tool. If SKDAC had one of similar stds I'd use that too.

[Eco-velocity therapy]

Karl

I agree, no one can 'own' a community (online or otherwise).

I see us in a caretaker role. The best we can do is try to influence or lead the community in a way that is consistent with our objectives (... promote the development of the sport [at all levels]).

Fostering discussion that damages the sport overall would contradict our objectives, so perhaps we do need to move that part on.

Interesting times ahead. I know I don't have all the answers. That is why we have a working group to put our heads together, including some different viewpoints. Karl, I think you do have a lot of insight to add, in what ever form you want to provide it.