ARC event = automatic inclusion in state championship.

[Spac]

(This was mentioned by me in Fatty's 'How to fix the ARC' thread. Rather than divert that thread off topic, here's a new thread)

Originally Posted by legend

it was last years rant. so what are you saying - the great mistakes rally back on the state calander? after all that? they've gotta be kidding themselves. is this a gee-up?

I agree that the ARC should piggy back onto state rounds. But defeinately nevert he other way around. The state round should be run in format that suits that state championship. none of this super-series bolox. no 50 thousand parc fermes, and cabaret shows and cafe-barriers.

This was discussed at the Canberra ARCom forum. The push is coming from ARCom, not the GLR.
In fact, the last I heard, the GLR people didn't want their event to be a state round, as the disparate requirements of the ARC and NSWRC made their life too difficult.
The 07 NSW RAP specifically avoided scheduling other events around the GLR date, so that competitors weren't forced to choose between events, and could still do both if they wished.

The event doesn't (didn't?) want to be part of the state championship, most competitiors don't (didn't?) want it to be part of the state championship, and yet a third party is walking in and saying that It Will Be So.

This topic was the one thing that annoyed me about the ARCom forum. It was made clear that it wasn't going to change (and I sensed an inference that I was missing the big picture - but I'm still not sure what the big picture is), so I haven't really bothered to argue.

In more general terms, there is a lot of general, low-key hostility toward the ARC from state round competitors.
For years, the ARC has had to jump through extra hoops (time, money, etc) compared to state and club level rallying. This is arguably a reasonable situation, and previously most sub-ARC competitors have been happy with a 'live and let live' approach.

However, as the ARC has contracted, the 'solution' has been to impose more and more ARC-level impositions on all levels of rallying, in the name of 'smoothing the transition for crews to join the ARC'. In reality, this has been totally arse-about-face, as those impositions are a significant part of the reason the ARC has declined.
And unsurprisingly, those same impositions have (and will continue to) hurt the sub-ARC events.
This has created, and bred at attitude of hostility toward the ARC. Neal Bates is clearly aware of this attitude, as he demonstrated at the Canberra ARCom forum (essentially: 'It's not our fault these things happen').

So to run rough-shod over the RAP and force them to accept the NSW ARC as a NSWRC round is a real smack in the face to the event organisers, the NSW RAP, and the NSWRC competitors.

If the best/most suitable NSWRC round was selected as an ARC, and allowed to run essentially as a state round (and not re-invented to fit the ARC mold), then my attitude would be entirely different.

It's also worth noting that while ARC rounds are usually state championship rounds in other states, this is largely (entirely?) due to a lack of suitable events in those states. NSW already had more applications for 2008 NSWRC events than it could handle, before ARCom decreed that we'd have another.

[Ric Cary]

Originally Posted by Spac

(This was mentioned by me in Fatty's 'How to fix the ARC' thread. Rather than divert that thread off topic, here's a new thread)



This was discussed at the Canberra ARCom forum. The push is coming from ARCom, not the GLR.
In fact, the last I heard, the GLR people didn't want their event to be a state round, as the disparate requirements of the ARC and NSWRC made their life too difficult.
The 07 NSW RAP specifically avoided scheduling other events around the GLR date, so that competitors weren't forced to choose between events, and could still do both if they wished.

The event doesn't (didn't?) want to be part of the state championship, most competitiors don't (didn't?) want it to be part of the state championship, and yet a third party is walking in and saying that It Will Be So.

This topic was the one thing that annoyed me about the ARCom forum. It was made clear that it wasn't going to change (and I sensed an inference that I was missing the big picture - but I'm still not sure what the big picture is), so I haven't really bothered to argue.

In more general terms, there is a lot of general, low-key hostility toward the ARC from state round competitors.
For years, the ARC has had to jump through extra hoops (time, money, etc) compared to state and club level rallying. This is arguably a reasonable situation, and previously most sub-ARC competitors have been happy with a 'live and let live' approach.

However, as the ARC has contracted, the 'solution' has been to impose more and more ARC-level impositions on all levels of rallying, in the name of 'smoothing the transition for crews to join the ARC'. In reality, this has been totally arse-about-face, as those impositions are a significant part of the reason the ARC has declined.
And unsurprisingly, those same impositions have (and will continue to) hurt the sub-ARC events.
This has created, and bred at attitude of hostility toward the ARC. Neal Bates is clearly aware of this attitude, as he demonstrated at the Canberra ARCom forum (essentially: 'It's not our fault these things happen').

So to run rough-shod over the RAP and force them to accept the NSW ARC as a NSWRC round is a real smack in the face to the event organisers, the NSW RAP, and the NSWRC competitors.

If the best/most suitable NSWRC round was selected as an ARC, and allowed to run essentially as a state round (and not re-invented to fit the ARC mold), then my attitude would be entirely different.

It's also worth noting that while ARC rounds are usually state championship rounds in other states, this is largely (entirely?) due to a lack of suitable events in those states. NSW already had more applications for 2008 NSWRC events than it could handle, before ARCom decreed that we'd have another.

As far as I know at this stage ARCOM have not decreed anything, they have made their intentions known but there is no decree. The NSWRAP and the organisers have also made it quite clear that neither body believes that the NSW ARC rnd should form part of the 2008 NSWRC

[Spook!!!@PKB]

Originally Posted by Ric Cary

As far as I know at this stage ARCOM have not decreed anything, they have made their intentions known but there is no decree. The NSWRAP and the organisers have also made it quite clear that neither body believes that the NSW ARC rnd should form part of the 2008 NSWRC

What promoter in their right mind would consider running a ARC event without State, Clubman or Classics? Lets face it they are the cash cows for these events, without which promoter goes out on his rrr's.

Regards

Dougal Cowperthwaite
"Spook!!!"

[Spac]

I believe that the GLR organisers will still run a 'clubman' component to their event.

They're not stupid or inexperienced people - no doubt they've done their sums and thought about what they want to achieve, and how to achieve it, etc.

(NB: I'm not in the loop here - not part of the RAP this year, etc so I am free to be corrected if my understanding is wide of the mark. But even if the GLR organisers do want their event to be part of the NSWRC, then I'm still quite irate that the not-unreasonable wishes of the RAP and state competitors are being ignored).

[JS]

Originally Posted by Spac

I believe that the GLR organisers will still run a 'clubman' component to their event.

They're not stupid or inexperienced people - no doubt they've done their sums and thought about what they want to achieve, and how to achieve it, etc.

(NB: I'm not in the loop here - not part of the RAP this year, etc so I am free to be corrected if my understanding is wide of the mark. But even if the GLR organisers do want their event to be part of the NSWRC, then I'm still quite irate that the not-unreasonable wishes of the RAP and state competitors are being ignored).

Spac how do know what the RAP want or have requested on behalf of the members they represent, they certainly have put forward no information publicly, or here for us to see, in fact his year you would not know they even exist!

Share with us your sources/ reference material. They also need to communicate with the masses.................


js

[ropie]

This is the letter sent to ARCom from NSW rally panel re this.


After our earlier discussion and last nights ACT forum, I wish to formally raise the on going issue of the purported ARCom position that the NSW round of the ARC will ne mandated to become a round of the NSW state rally championship.

Having spoken with the event organiser both before our discussion on 1st Feb, and this morning, the event organiser has made it clear that they have no desire for the GLR to be a round of the NSW seriesunder the current conditions imposed.This was a point I clarified prior to discussions 1st Feb to ensure I was accurately representing the organisers position.

There are also the opinons and concerns of the NSW state series competitors, which don't appear to be taken into consideration with the current ARCom position.

I was hoping to work with the ARCom members toward a resolution on this matter, but should the current ARCom position be unalterable, it will be made clear that this decision is being made against the objections of the NSW RAP. I wpuld also expect a similar response from the organisers of the GLR, and a reaction from the greater NSW rally community.

Fro Horobin.
CAMS NSW rally advisory panel.


As one of the new members of the rally panel, I reackon we are too quiet also. THe next rap meeting is going to be held friday 7th march, just before the ARCom forum, where armed with verbal versions of AK 47s, the revolution starts. Well, Fidel has resigned so new people needed?

The one meeting this year seemed to taken up with clearing a lot of stuff left over from 2007. I presume the minutes will be posted to NSW Rally site soon?

Richard Opie.

[Spac]

JS, the 2008 calendar was set last year, when I was a NSW RAP member.
The how/why/who were all discussed then, and - even before seeing the letter from the '08 RAP - I had no reason to think that the opinions of the GLR organisers, the new RAP, or the NSW competitors had changed.

To be fair, not much has happened thus far this year: They've set the calendars and released series regs. What more should they have done that needs to be public knowledge?

[Rallydat]

I saw on the GLR website last night that due to the Alpine Style event in NSW at the end of the year there will be no Classic Rally this year either.

[kam_baker]

They can visit the wooly bull!

If we at the CNCSCC wanted an ARC round, we would apply for it, if we wanted a NSW State Round, we would apply for it.

None of the NSW clubs asked for an ARC round, nor did the GLR organisor apply for a State round.

So that is the facts.....................

To have something thrust upon you without requesting will more than likely burr you up.

SO ARCOM SHOULD JUST LEAVE IT AT THAT.

[legend]

this is the first time I've ever wished I was RAP chairman.

The forums were supposed to be about fixing the ARC, not ***ing all other levels of the sport.

As for the state championship - I think I'll go and watch some cricket. Who was that yorkshireman that captained England in the early 70's - the corpse with pads on?

[Factor]

Bugger that Matty - Join me on the Factor for President Ticket - I will make you minister for something or other - possibly Auditory Warning Devices.

And as President I hope to get factory support so we could have lots of fun.

[legend]

Originally Posted by Factor

Bugger that Matty - Join me on the Factor for President Ticket - I will make you minister for something or other - possibly Auditory Warning Devices.

Ad as President I hope to get factory support so we could have lots of fun.

Cams with proper governance. imagine that. Count me in.

Although Auditory Warning Devices. Hmmm. AWD. I think not.

[JS]

Originally Posted by Spac

JS, the 2008 calendar was set last year, when I was a NSW RAP member.
The how/why/who were all discussed then, and - even before seeing the letter from the '08 RAP - I had no reason to think that the opinions of the GLR organisers, the new RAP, or the NSW competitors had changed.

To be fair, not much has happened thus far this year: They've set the calendars and released series regs. What more should they have done that needs to be public knowledge?

Perhaps published some minutes on the nswrally site. The last ones there are around 8 months ago! So probably missing several.Considering their next meeting is in 2 weeks or so. I have sent them an email through the nsw rally site. We will see what happens!

js

[flat04]

Just out of interest, how come you all don't want your ARC round to also be a state round? Is it just past bad blood or a current issue?

[legend]

Originally Posted by flat04

Just out of interest, how come you all don't want your ARC round to also be a state round? Is it just past bad blood or a current issue?

look back to about august or September last year. search on Forced her rally. GLR etc. its all there.