Group G Vehicle register?

[Marcus]

Oh dear, the dreaded and scary G word.

Something that occurred to me when asking questions about why Group G cars are presently not allowed as Classics, when they actually pretty much define Australian Rallying for quite some time is that while they are talked about in whispers of awe by those that saw them... not much seems to be known in general about the actual cars themselves or where they got to - or how many are left.

Why not? If they are part of what's regarded as the high point of Australian Rallying then why don't we know more?

I know most would have been converted to PRC, some rusted away, others disappeared and will never be heard from again - but the odd one still exists. So what I want to try to do is see how many actually are still with us.

It doesn't matter how modified the car was, if it competed in the Group G era, it's probably eligible as long as it's competition history can be tracked.

So what I'm looking for is -

a) Cars that ran under Group G (ie, genuine)

b) What became of them

c) Does it still exist

d) Is it still competing

e) Who competed in it

I'm also looking for the rulebook to Group G and also the time period Group G existed. The end result I'm hoping for is a good list of what still is out there.

[tanz]

Marcus,

You might find some like minded folk at http://rallycargroupg.wetpaint.com/

Or slip over to www.ndscc.asn.au as these guys are trying to track down the group G cars also.

[Marcus]

Well, we got ropie's Stanza and seems there's a Dazda in WA and a 1600 lurking about. So there's two definate, two more possible.

It's a start.

[DaveTrees]

Originally Posted by Marcus

I'm also looking for the rulebook to Group G and also the time period Group G existed.

Any CAMS Manual prior to about 1986 would have the rules.

"Group G" was, IIRC, pretty much just the "General Requirements for Rally Cars" that is now Schedule R of the current rules.

It was tightened up a little in it's last few years of existence with regards to engines, so maybe a pre-84 manual would be more what you are looking for. I'm sure there would be people around who hoard such things .... or your local CAMS State Office would have one.

[John C]

Marcus
I own a Toyota Celica RA40 that was Group G and built and run by the Green Bros on North coast NSW, I have recently spoken with Terry Green and am hoping to obtain a lot more info on the car.

The car was only recently bought from Terry Green and then resold to myself in mid 2007.

It is currently running as PRC but has plenty of evidence of its group G modifications.

I ran it in three HRA events in 2007

In Victoria I know locally of a supercharged 180B that is still fully road registered and and owned by its origfinal owner,

Also have seen Portmans 1600 complete with flares

[Ben Wilson]

Originally Posted by Marcus

I'm also looking for the rulebook to Group G

More of a leaflet than a book...

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by Ben Wilson

More of a leaflet than a book...

Hey, it'll do!

And we now seem to have unearthed 6 cars, (Portman's would be fantastic to confirm). Here's hoping we can find some more

[DaveTrees]

Originally Posted by John C

Also have seen Portmans 1600 complete with flares

Which one ? There were quite a few over the years (and I'm sure that the the various changes in VIN that went with numberplate IFK250 were all notified to VicRoads )

The ARC-winning "Grunter" died a long time ago ... in the hands of one of the Snookseseses, I believe !

... or do you mean the car that GP ran in the VRC in the mid-80s (which was actually owned by Peter Gale, I think) with SAAS/Marsh livery? That was a good car, but nothing "special" compared to Grunter ... it's success was more to do with the bloke behind the wheel !

[DaveTrees]

Originally Posted by Marcus

Here's hoping we can find some more

If you just mean "cars originally logbooked before 1985", I know of plenty that are still around ...

Some are "truly historically significant" - some are just "old cars".

As the link Ben posted demonstrates, Group G wasn't some special category - it was just the rules used for rally cars at the time.

The "typical" Group G car was just something like a 1600 fitted with an L20 & twin Webers, and maybe perpex windows & a fibreglass bonnet - big deal

and yes, I started following rallying, and competing, in that era. On the whole, the cars weren't what made the sport "special" in those days .... the drivers were, IMHO

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by DaveTrees

If you just mean "cars originally logbooked before 1985", I know of plenty that are still around ...

Some are "truly historically significant" - some are just "old cars".

As the link Ben posted demonstrates, Group G wasn't some special category - it was just the rules used for rally cars at the time.

The "typical" Group G car was just something like a 1600 fitted with an L20 & twin Webers, and maybe perpex windows & a fibreglass bonnet - big deal

and yes, I started following rallying, and competing, in that era. On the whole, the cars weren't what made the sport "special" in those days .... the drivers were, IMHO

This is not about what was special and what was not. This isn't even a debate about what should or shouldn't be called Group G either - as far as I am concerned, if it competed in the Group G days, then that's good enough for me to make note of and I will.

I'm sure we'll find mainly cars of not much signifigance and the occasional rare HOLY S***!!!! IT'S STILL ABOUT????? Fine by me - however I'm not about exclusion. The two factors I'm looking for is did it compete plus can it be verified as the original car (no re-shells and no replicas) and that's it. If those two can be satisfied, then I personally say it's an original Group G car.

[Spac]

My old Sadnut was originally log-booked as a Gp-G car in the mid-1980s. No idea how modified it ever was, but it was in original PRC-spec when I got it late in '05.

I know of an "EH XU1" sitting in a shed in Canberra. I've had no luck in either getting the owner to use it or let me use it...

Can't remember what the Galant is log booked as. Probably GpG, but it's PRC legal (and given that it's last rally was in 1981 or 82, I seriously doubt that it was ever one of those 'special' GpG cars).

[steuart]

Originally Posted by John C

Marcus
I own a Toyota Celica RA40 that was Group G and built and run by the Green Bros on North coast NSW, I have recently spoken with Terry Green and am hoping to obtain a lot more info on the car.

The car was only recently bought from Terry Green and then resold to myself in mid 2007.

It is currently running as PRC but has plenty of evidence of its group G modifications.

I ran it in three HRA events in 2007

In Victoria I know locally of a supercharged 180B that is still fully road registered and and owned by its origfinal owner,

Also have seen Portmans 1600 complete with flares

John,

When and where did you see Portman's 1600 with flares?

Steuart Snooks

[DaveTrees]

Originally Posted by Marcus

The two factors I'm looking for is did it compete plus can it be verified as the original car (no re-shells and no replicas) and that's it. If those two can be satisfied, then I personally say it's an original Group G car.

No argument from me on that score ... I just don't understand why you want them "specially recognised" as a new category ?

Cars in Vic I can think of off the top of my head that are still around (and in most cases still competing) :

- Ted Perkins' Kingswood (Bob Watson's 1970 VRC-winning car)
- Ken Cusack's Monaro ? (reshelled, but not sure when)
- the ex-Masling V8 Stanza (refurbished, but not competing)
- ex-Laurie Weston LA Lancer (now owned by Stuart Lister)
- Doug Norman's Pug 504 (ex Rob Dyer)
- Rick Hartmann's 1600
- Russell Mckenzie's Mk2 Escort (ex G Alexander)
- Gordon Douglas' Mk2 Escort
- Trevor Woods' 1600

..... plus a fair few others if I really thought about it.