Blind rally's

[ABCxyz]

I've done a search and I was supprissed it didn't bring up much. I did ask a while back in another thread but I can't find it. I was after some comments on blind rally's. I did some 25 years ago before I had some sense of my own mortality. I'm going to have a few runs in gravel rally's up here in QLD and I'm thinking about not doing any that are blind and just sticking with noted rally's.

The search did bring up a few incar video's of road book events and they look like an invitation to trouble. I watched one and the timber line went straight over the crest but over the crest the road snaked around a fallen tree and there was no call except the driver made a brief comment as they passed.

What does everyone else think

[Ric Cary]

Originally Posted by ABCxyz

I've done a search and I was supprissed it didn't bring up much. I did ask a while back in another thread but I can't find it. I was after some comments on blind rally's. I did some 25 years ago before I had some sense of my own mortality. I'm going to have a few runs in gravel rally's up here in QLD and I'm thinking about not doing any that are blind and just sticking with noted rally's.

The search did bring up a few incar video's of road book events and they look like an invitation to trouble. I watched one and the timber line went straight over the crest but over the crest the road snaked around a fallen tree and there was no call except the driver made a brief comment as they passed.

What does everyone else think

IMHO you would be far better off doing some blind rallies first to get yourself up to speed regarding car control, reading the roads etc, the guys/girls who write road books are generally very expierienced and don't miss to much. they are far less likely to make the sort of mistakes that an inexpierienced driver and co driver can make when writing notes and that can lead to some big big big moments

[Damo]

Originally Posted by ABCxyz

I watched one and the timber line went straight over the crest but over the crest the road snaked around a fallen tree and there was no call except the driver made a brief comment as they passed.

What does everyone else think

Sounds like the driver did the right thing and backed off when he didnt know where the road went. Not sure I see the problem?

[Woody]

I personally like blind rallies. For me it adds that level of adventure when you are both seeing the roads for the first* time.

I've seen good and not so good road books, but as Ric says most writers are well experienced. This is old cheese but IMHO there is room for both and you should try both ... as often as possible.

* maybe first time since last year??

[ABCxyz]

Originally Posted by Damo

Sounds like the driver did the right thing and backed off when he didnt know where the road went. Not sure I see the problem?

The brief comment made by the driver was f*rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrk

My point was that it clearly should have been in the road book and maybe it was but it wasn't called by the navigator. I've spoken to drivers who have different opinions of the quality of the notes. Are the road books always right, there were some corners that I would have said tightened weren't called. Turns over crest didn't have distance or severity.

If you back off over a crest just in case; how much do you back off ? If you take it to it's full extent you need to be able to slow to 20klms in the distance of road you can see. If you crest each non noted crest at those speeds you will finish a safe last.

[Kate]

Originally Posted by ABCxyz

My point was that it clearly should have been in the road book

There will always be those that say that - everyone has different interpretations of the road book but the organisers do the best job they can for everyone.

and maybe it was but it wasn't called by the navigator.

Nothing to do with the road book there sunshine...

I've spoken to drivers who have different opinions of the quality of the notes.

Of course!! See previous comment about interpretations. And its not just the road book, its also the nav and also the driver driving to within their ability - very easy to blame a crash on the road book....

Are the road books always right,

No they are not. And no-one with half a brain will tell you that they are. Again, see previous comment about organisers doing their best.

there were some corners that I would have said tightened weren't called. Turns over crest didn't have distance or severity.

Again, personal interpretation, driver ability, nav competance and look at the tulips.

[Ric Cary]

Originally Posted by ABCxyz

If you back off over a crest just in case; how much do you back off ? If you take it to it's full extent you need to be able to slow to 20klms in the distance of road you can see.

There are always things that will pop out at you in a blind rally,
Consider this tho,
you are an inexpierienced pace noter you go out and do your notes and at 50kph write a crest in at a 6 or a 10 depending what system you use.

then when you arrive at that crest at 170+ kph realise you have been a tad ambitious and the next call of a r2 just ain't going to happen. ask any number of people how many times thats happened try Southy for starters

I don't know how many times I have said it drive to what you can see, no one will pay to repair your car/yourself or your co driver and whilst trophies make nice dust catchers they are worth $20 is it worth a multi thousand dollar bill to attempt to get one

Originally Posted by ABCxyz

If you crest each non noted crest at those speeds you will finish a safe last.

Yep but you will finish and you'll be in the bar telling everyone how fast you were and you will have beaten all the hero's that didn't lift for the crests or took the road book as gospel,and the next event you do you will go a bit faster

[tanz]

It's up to you, but I'm more than happy with the roadbooks supplied for Qld events.

Just bear in mind that there aren't that many pacenoted events in Qld, and you'll miss out on some really good events!

[Jme]

With crests in a blind rally... you just take an educated guess and pray. If you put your foot on the brake then you'll give away time to those who are 'nuts'. I'll admit that I take risks on crests- I've seen a few rally roads in my day from the left hand seat and just back my senses. I'm about 100 right and 1 wrong this year. The wrong was a DNF.

On notes there is no guess work. I know exactly where the road is and the note tells me how fast to drive it. I can still get it wrong, or write a bad note- but much of the 'uncertainty' is taken away.

Starting out... you want to drive both styles of rally and aim to get to the finish. If you keep entering rallies and finishing that will serve you well. Put good people around you- experienced co-drivers or local knowledge and do the apprenticeship. It's a school of hard knocks, and there will always be someone around to bag you. Just suck it all up...

[msgofast]

Originally Posted by Ric Cary

There are always things that will pop out at you in a blind rally,
Consider this tho,
you are an inexpierienced pace noter you go out and do your notes and at 50kph write a crest in at a 6 or a 10 depending what system you use.

then when you arrive at that crest at 170+ kph realise you have been a tad ambitious and the next call of a r2 just ain't going to happen. ask any number of people how many times thats happened try Southy for starters

I don't know how many times I have said it drive to what you can see, no one will pay to repair your car/yourself or your co driver and whilst trophies make nice dust catchers they are worth $20 is it worth a multi thousand dollar bill to attempt to get one



Yep but you will finish and you'll be in the bar telling everyone how fast you were and you will have beaten all the hero's that didn't lift for the crests or took the road book as gospel,and the next event you do you will go a bit faster

Least with notes you learn what went wrong and move on, with blind rallies you just learn there is another book that needs to go out the window

Despite what you may think, I don't take risks on blind rallies, just too many people have too many ideas on what should or should not be in the book, I was never good at lotto, and guessing a blind rally road book is asking for trouble....I guess that is why so many people go out of there way to run incar and learn the bad corners. It is easier to learn how to write notes and drive on them, one day you will crash if you want to go fast, can't say I have ever seen a world champion who hasn't crashed, most times a noting error more than driver error, driving is the easy bit, writing notes that work is the tricky bit, but if you learn from it then that makes you a smarter man, it's when you don't learn anything that you need to ask your self what you are trying to achieve

[EVOSFK]

I have done a little driving and learning on pace notes but have never competed in a rally on them. My next rally will be on pace notes and I am excited at the driving rhythm, the challenges and even the safety it generates. As an inexperienced rally driver I may not be too qualified to comment but a very experienced rally driver once told me "If you can't see the road put your foot on the brake!" Good advice probably saved me more times than I can remember. I am sure the skills learnt in blind rallies will help my pace note rallying. I think the road book should only be used as a guide to get you to the end of stage - Nothing else. Stories of people flying over blind crests on a road book having never seen the other side should be left at the pub. Anyone who crashes in a blind rally from there being a tight turn after a blind crest deserves what they get.
I think pace note rallies can be safer but they are only as good as the pace note. At least it is up to the driver and it is the driver's responsibility totally to write good notes.
Driving rally cars in the forest to the limit will eventually end in a crash. Pace notes or no pace notes. Thats the game we play.

[robert inall]

Dave on pace notes your speed will increase but your (nor mine) ability will not, just wring it's neck & have ago.

[scooter]

The road books for blind rallys (note - plural, therefore no apostrophe, apologies, but it is my pet hate..) in Qld these days are generally pretty good, at least for the QRC. All road books are a compromise between what's necessary for the fastest 4WD cars, the fastest 2WD cars and a very basic 2WD car with a relatively inexperienced driver. What may in some cases be a double caution for one of those groups may not even rate a mention for others. It's important to realise that no road book is perfect, ever, becasue of that compromise. If it needs to be in for only one of those groups, it goes in.

Iain Stewart is the checker for a lot of the events in Qld and you can't get much more experienced than that. In addition, he's very open to discussion about what was in the book and what was not; he and I have had discussions of this nature many times and it was always constructive.

Blind events will build some skills (like reading the road) far faster than you would doing nothing but pace-noted events.

[Ric Cary]

Originally Posted by robert inall

Dave on pace notes your speed will increase but your (nor mine) ability will not, just wring it's neck & have ago.

No Robert No,No Robert No, Noooooooooooooo Robert

[Spac]

IMHO, notes is about being a forest racer, while a road book is more about being a rally driver (and/or nav!).
A big part of the skill of being a rally driver is being able to read the roads at speed (and this is coming from someone who typically does better on notes than a road book).
I also prefer that road books keep the speeds down a bit (or at least get all of the beserkers to crash out early in the event...).

Originally Posted by scooter

The road books for blind rallys (note - plural, therefore no apostrophe, apologies, but it is my pet hate..)

If a word ends in the letter 'y', then its plural is formed by dropping the y and replacing it with 'ies'....