2008 NSW Rally Panel Disolved

[MarkH]

Originally Posted by Dave Kelly

However in due course presumably all will be revealed in terms of the SCE minutes as sooner or later those minutes will be made public, so maybe (on present timeliness of availability of NSW SCE minutes) by mid to late 2009 (or maybe later????) we will all know!
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Actually to deviate from the path of this thread, as a avaricious reader of all minutes, it peeves me that the minutes from various Panels & State Executives are so far behind. I try to make sure my own panel's (VRAP) minutes are kept up to date on the web site for all to read. It smacks of agenda's or laziness, or both, for them to be so far behind. There is no excuse.

[matthewronke]

Thanks David

I would have to agree with you, that is the intent of the state council executive after speaking with one of its member the other week. His reasons slightly differ from that of the letter which would make the minutes very interesting.

Originally Posted by Dave Kelly

Sorry Matthew, I beg to differ. If there is no minute, then that simply means that there is no official written record of the SCE's intended decision to act in a certain way, rather than the action be void.

Definition: INTENT - The determination or resolve to do a certain thing

From the CAMS Constitution

62. Minutes
The Board shall cause minute books to be kept in which CAMS records within one month:
(a) proceedings and resolutions of all General Meetings; and
(b) proceedings and resolutions of Board meetings (including meetings of all committees and commissions); and
(c) resolutions passed by Category E Members without a meeting; and
(d) resolutions passed by the Board without a meeting.

The Board must ensure that minutes of a meeting are signed within a reasonable time after the meeting by the chairman of the meeting or the chairman of the next meeting. The Board must ensure that minutes of the passing of a resolution without a meeting are signed by a Director within a reasonable time after the resolution was passed.

But we could debate the practices of following instruction or the intent to all day. Agreed, that it won’t change the current situation. Way forward is possibly similar to the U.S. Election.

So looking to the Victorian situation last year were the SCE refused to accept the intended recipient of Rally Panel chairman with the SCE refusing the nomination.

These two occurrences remind me of U.S. Vice President nominee Joe Biden summation of the Bush Governments support of the former Pakistani Government.

“We support democratically elected Governments and the dictatorships that agree with us.”

It seems that Rally Panels in Vic and NSW can only functional properly if the agree with the SCE.

So one possible way forward would be the same as the US election, a regime change!

Would it be Pernicious to say, FACTOR for President.

[robert inall]

Originally Posted by Dave Kelly

Sorry Matthew, I beg to differ. If there is no minute, then that simply means that there is no official written record of the SCE's intended decision to act in a certain way, rather than the action be void.

The fact still remains that Michael Smith (the CAMS person responsible for State CAMS Offices) has confirmed the apparent intent of NSW SCE to take a particular action.

Now as it so happens, personally I happen to think the action was probably an over-reaction and should have been handled differently and with much more respect to the people involved in the NSW RAP. However as much as we all don't like it, whats done is done and trying to start some war on whether the actions were valid or not isn't going to help resolve it.

Rather, if indeed it is true that the NSW SCE have decided that they didn't want to minute such actions, then thats simply a pretty poor reflection on some from that Executive and how they record the business of their meetings. The delegates to NSW State Council can perhaps form a view on such matters and how their executive has acted, and take them to task (or not) as they so desire.

However in due course presumably all will be revealed in terms of the SCE minutes as sooner or later those minutes will be made public, so maybe (on present timeliness of availability of NSW SCE minutes) by mid to late 2009 (or maybe later????) we will all know!

Sorry to rain on your parade Matthew!

Cheers

David
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Dave why must you always bring fact into an emotional debate(argument)

[Dweller]

Why do we even need a Rally Panel when we have all this ?

[daewoo]

This is my no BS impression of one scenario of what may or may not have happened... all rumor, without any verification from anyone involved... at least I believe it is more accurate than 'there wasn't much work left this year, so we thought we would give everyone an early start to their holidays'...

Allegedly allegedly allegedly...

There has been some conflict between the SEC and the NSWRAP over many issues throughout the year... for a combination of that, the political BS that we all know about when being part of a committee, and genuine personal reasons, Fro resigned...

Vice-Chair is offered the guernsey, but cannot attend the SEC meetings so volunteers to step aside if someone else wants the GIG, or otherwise send a rep to the SEC meetings...

Graham Humphrey's attends the SEC meeting (not sure if it was with the Vice-Chairs blessing or not), and is asked what work is left to see the year out...

At a SEC only meeting, the SEC decides to disband the panel and asks certain people to fulfill the tasks outlined by Graham until the new structure is decided and a new panel formed...

This all allegedly allegedly allegedly of course...

If you know Graham like I do, he is hardly the 'Golden Haired Boy' of the SEC, so I don't believe it was his doing to have the NSWRAP disbanded...

Final note, I think the way it works is this...
State Council is the representatives of the car clubs...
Voting members on State Council vote for the SEC members...
SEC members appoint the NSWRAP chairman, and confirm the chairmans selection of panel members...

If you aren't happy with the way the NSWRAP are acting for you... or how the SEC treat the NSWRAP... lobby your representative to State Council, and get them to turn up to the State Council meeting and put your voice forward... democracy at work (sort of)...

I am not putting this forward as gospel, and am happy to accept that it is probably only around 50% of the story...

Cheers,
Daewoo

[legend]

Originally Posted by daewoo

If you know Graham like I do, he is hardly the 'Golden Haired Boy' of the SEC, so I don't believe it was his doing to have the NSWRAP disbanded...

And If you know him like I do, you'll know that he has made an artform out of manipulating situations to fall the way he wants them to fall and making it look like it wasn't his doing.

not saying that's what's happened here, but he's got you believing.........

[Factor]

Ah - it all reminds me of the old pubic circus saying

Its not what you know - its who you blow.

[Jme]

Originally Posted by robert inall

Jamie that is a long list of observations. What do you think should be done to work on these issues?

I think Graham and Adrian are CAMS men. For CAMS to function it needs CAMS men to advise them. We all know CAMS is broken in some ways which make it all very difficult.

I know Rob and Matt have issue with Graham- but that's neither here nor there. I've battled Graham over things in the past, both at tribunals and personally, but I respect him. We see many things differently however.

We have AMSAG, which I hope will continue to grow. Rallying away from CAMS (in AMSAG) has got to be the answer, simply because the people doing the rallying are empowered to make decisions.

[Spac]

I agree with most of your post JME, but GH is not a CAMS man - definitely not the way AD is.
That GH can directly/indirectly continue to have so much influence within CAMS is really quite amazing to me.
Whether he's a hero or a villan is another matter, but my amazement is not reduced.

[Jme]

Originally Posted by Factor

Ari - you should know that JME only does criticism, he doesn't do solutions

I've done solutions- I just don't beat my chest and kiss arse like you Factor. You don't know anything about me really... or what I do or don't do. The people who know me actually see that I just play games on here- it's entertainment.

But yeah, lots of the issues facing rallying atm are not easy fixes. I don't have much to offer in the overall scheme of things. I support non-CAMS rallying as an alternative by a) competing in the events and b) officialling at the events. I'm at all these rallies, and have been for a while now. I think the answer to our problems is somewhere in the alternative, and the further we keep committee 'Yes' men away from the decision making process the better the sport we be for the competitors.

That's what I'm about I guess. I won't function in the CAMS system. I hate the system- there are some good people there but... the answer is rallying in the hands of the competitors. Open your wallet, pay some rally bills and you've got a voice.

That's the painful thing about the NSWRP getting boned- generally it was made up of people who open there wallet and contribute to the sport via entries/sponsorship/officialling etc, but in the CAMS system that doesn't afford you any credibility or status. It's just more agenda's and personalities the sport needs to overcome to function.

Nothing new here- been like that for years. I'm not gunna bash my head into a brick wall while ever AMSAG has legs. That's where true rallying exists at the moment. It's grass-roots, people based, BS free. All the things CAMS isn't.

So there is the solution. We just need more people to see it as such.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Jme

I've done solutions- I just don't beat my chest and kiss arse like you Factor. You don't know anything about me really... or what I do or don't do. The people who know me actually see that I just play games on here- it's entertainment.
.

Kiss arse - jeez, you can accuse me of many things and be correct, but arse kissing is not one of them. Name me one occassion when I have followed the corporate line. I may agree with the corprate line (from time to time and an increasingly few occassions) but I have never toed the coporate line. Thats probably the nastiest thing you have ever said to me. Very hurtful, I think I need to go away and have a cry.

Or alternatively NOT.

As for knowing you - I apply the duck rule - if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck swims like a duck and looks like a duck, chances are - its a duck.

And you sir, are a duck (metaphorically speaking).

Edit
Had a little further think on this point you piece of dog flatulence. You really are a tool, and a self inflated self centred self abusing one at that. As for knowing you - I judge people on their actions not their words. Its an old fashioned view I know.

[ropie]

A little more mouth to mouth on the deceased. What has happened to the minutes of RAP for this year? I know they were to be changed to a different format but disappeared altogether? Jim?

[Jimmy]

Originally Posted by ropie

A little more mouth to mouth on the deceased. What has happened to the minutes of RAP for this year? I know they were to be changed to a different format but disappeared altogether? Jim?

I sent them all to the State Executive...

[ropie]

Do they just keep them or send them back to you Jim?

[Jimmy]

Originally Posted by ropie

Do they just keep them or send them back to you Jim?

They haven't sent them back and I would assume they wont given that the Panel was dissolved.

Under normal cicumstances the RAP Chairman would attend the State Exec Meeting where the minutes would be approved and then the Panel Chairman would advise that the minutes can then be published. That is how its meant to work apparently.

As you know I was Secretary of the NSWRAP and was also dissolved with you and the rest of the Panel. I have been asked join "the gang of 4" specifically to help pull next years calendar together which I am trying to do at the moment.