Classics ARC

[Mr Ruggles]

Personally I think Classic at ARC could be a good thing provided Cams actually works out what a Classic Rally car is.

I am concerned however about a proposal to run Classics with ARC for 2010 using event organisers/ competitors money to fund certain starters. As I understand it the ARCOM commissioner is seeking support from the event directors to pay for a few Classic cars to spice up the show at ARC.

Well the first comment is why not fix the ARC show as a priority and the second is why pay for certain cars to turn up when they would anyway if the show was fixed? who is going to pay? well guess what we all know the answer to that one.

Has anybody else heard similar rumblings? so which cars have been asked for subsidies?

It would be very interesting to know if people in positions of authority are excersizing privledge here

If ARCOM is aware of all this can they show the members this proposal, whi is behind it and who will be the beneficiaries?

Any one else care to comment?

[Rallyray]

Heres a question-

When a person pays to go spectating who gets the money from it?

Want bigger crowds? Stop charging for entry. Give them exciting places to stand and don't charge them $7 for a sausage sandwich with onion.

Don't pay someone to drive their car around at half throttle. Theres enough of them in the ARC doing that.

Spectators want excitement. And when its free its better.

[Mike Cherry]

That is the ARCOM way, come up with a brainsnap then hoist the cost/inconvenience onto the Organisers.
When it all goes pear shaped, they deny any involvement and go out of their way to ensure that they are not part of the chain of responsibility, leaving the Organisers to shoulder the blame while they dissappear into the sunset.
Ditto for Rallycorp.
Bit rich tho', get a couple of old Datsuns and Escorts (no disrespect meant) to "spice up the show", as Matt says, why not fix what ya got first.
I can actually recommend some good reading that will give you a fair bit of insight into the ARC, read "Part 3" (whatever that is supposed to mean) the Organisers Manual, it is a total crack up.

[Kaptainballistik]

How about get the RWD PRC cars to turn up en mass. Commodore class? Datto Vs Rotor Vs V8 challenge?

How many of those ARENT classic ( Im excluding mine, Too much Carbon fibre...)

Hold it, that would mean ENCORAGING the lower end of the sport....

[Mr Ruggles]

I am going to lobby for president of AMSAG and then change the rules so only my car gets $3000.00 per event subsidy and make the punters pay....now let me see har far that will get me?



mmmmmmm dont think so

OOHH ok I'll let a few mates get it as well

[Dweller]

Motorsport is a funny old bugger, whenever you supposibly get a "Australian or World Championship" series, expectations are that you are going to see the best of the best, rarely does this happen what you see is the richest of the richest.
Classics at the ARC? We would be better off developing a Classic series because we know that we are going to be around for a while yet.

P.S and don't let the ARC cars run
P.P.S and have at least 1 round a navigational rally
P.P.P.S Hey Mike heard from RA yet?

[Matthew Ferguson]

If you want "demonstration" classes you would have to allow Group B too run, Or are they not classic enough?

I might even go and see those at a ARC round.

[pvda]

Originally Posted by Rallyray

don't charge them $7 for a sausage sandwich with onion.

I haven't got a problem with local community groups making adollar out of me after all we are playing in their backyard.

But I'm sick of paying Olympics food prices at local sporting events (penalty rates my @#$%).

[Mr Ruggles]

wasn;'t expecting it would evoke a Group G vs Classics debate but for what its worth my sentiments are with Marcus, Group G really are classics in Aus, but we can keep that debate for another day. In fact when its all boiled down most Classics already running in AUS are in fact versions of group G, ie not classics with such as toyota diffs , hybrid gearboxs, 2.4 lt Stanzas etc.

The real issue here as I see it is as members, competitors , hard workers for our clubs etc are we comfortable in standing by while so called elected representatives in positions of influence are putting together a financial return for thier own cars.

ACRA was initially set up as a club for like minded enthusiasts with Classic cars, it started to go off the rails when CAMS couldn't work out what a classic car was which I believe is still the case.

My understanding is that some ARC directors have agreed to subsidise selected cars, is this ethical? I am interested in opinions and debate about this as I personally see it as to the very core of the rot that exists in the CAMS system. I would very much like to see the proposal put up for all to see and to participate in also.

[Darryn Snooks]

Originally Posted by Dave Kelly

Hey Marcus and Spac,
[*]If the rumours are true that the ARC is going to subsidise the provision of "whatever" cars for "greats" of yesteryear to have a punt around in.... we wonder wheres the money coming from (and going to)?
[*]If as Mr Ruggles alluded to there are person/s involved in the upper echelons of the governance of Australian rallying whom might use this to help their own aspirations/interests.. then as sad as that sounds.. isn't that situation normal as has been served up to us as a sport (albeit in different ways) time and again for many years now?
David

David,

There is no truth to the rumours started by a muck maker or two. In no way is ARCom even contemplating subsidising any group let alone classics. And if it so happens that a particular commissioner has been given a task by the ARCom becuase it happens to fit into their particular field of expertise and passion does not mean that they are suddenly using such to further one's own interests.
EOS.
darryn

[Dave Kelly]

Originally Posted by Darryn Snooks

David,

There is no truth to the rumours started by a muck maker or two. In no way is ARCom even contemplating subsidising any group let alone classics. And if it so happens that a particular commissioner has been given a task by the ARCom becuase it happens to fit into their particular field of expertise and passion does not mean that they are suddenly using such to further one's own interests.
EOS.
darryn

Darryn,

Thank you. I unreservedly withdraw my comments in that respect, and will amend my original post accordingly.

My apologies, and thank you for clarifying there will be NO subsidisation and refuting what did seem an extraordinary claim (in respect of the rumour regarding subsidisation for a series that already seems to be based on a non-sustainable financial model (and I am aware from ARCom minutes that this latter point is also apparently being looked into as well)).

Kindest regards,

David

[Dweller]

Once in a while a decent thread gets started, then.........

[SHEPPO R.]

Originally Posted by Dweller

Once in a while a decent thread gets started, then.........

nothing good about this thread.... based on a bad rumor it would appear.
"never left the truth get in the way of a good story "!!!!

the questions of what a "classic" is.... i have no understanding, but it would seem they are good questions for its own thread.

[Spac]

Discussion about GpG, Classics and Historics split into a new thread here: Classics/Historics/GroupG (was Classics ARC)

Sorry for the some-what inelegant split.

[Mr Ruggles]

Originally Posted by Darryn Snooks

David,

There is no truth to the rumours started by a muck maker or two. In no way is ARCom even contemplating subsidising any group let alone classics. And if it so happens that a particular commissioner has been given a task by the ARCom becuase it happens to fit into their particular field of expertise and passion does not mean that they are suddenly using such to further one's own interests.
EOS.
darryn

If this is the case Darren, then would you care to answer why event directors have been asked to consider including costs of running a few Classics in ARC events for 2010?. I know this to be the case. You might say ARCOM is not officially requesting this but in your position would you consider it a little at odds if you are talking to them about your vehicles?, I am not accusing you merely asking the question given that you have made the statement and it is in direct conflict with the info I have.

Arcom minutes state that you have been asked to seek interest from ARC directors / organisers for possible Classic Cars inclusion 2010, it does not however include a brief to subsidise cars. Maybe if you post the entire proposal you have sent to each director here it will clear the issue for all, EOS. To be fair I'll leave that up to you.

will however be communicating with CAMS and requesting an official response regarding this matter.