CAMS Officials Apparel Matrix

[MATNESmotorsports]

where will rays stand with new rules??

MATT

[Mike Cherry]

Kinda in the same vein, at the State Rallysprint at Nabiac yesterday, competitors were required to wear helmets during recce.
This is a speed controlled activity.
The speed is controlled by a course car, manned by event officials and, I believe, an event Steward.
None of the occupants of the course car were required to wear helmets.
I would like to see the TRA for both cases for this one.

[Thirsty]

G'day.
Have held my tongue about this ill conceived all encompassing idea for long enough.
Rallying needs lots of people for road closure duties. I engage friends and acquaintances to come along and help. I advise them to come equipped for comfort, rain, heat, food, drink and dark. They are happy to help when told they will sign a disclaimer form about Motor Racing being dangerous etc. be taken into the forest and dropped at a road closure point, advised when the event is finished, and will receive a burger and drink at HQ when the event is finished.
If I ask them to come and sit in the dust, heat and dark then tell them there is an official apparel requirement they will just tell me "no thanks"
Control officials at rallies here in Qld that have specific roles all wear a bib with their role on it, good idea..
If I ask people to help crew we have a meeting night before the event and I bring them up to speed re the re-fuelling requirements and the expectation to maintain composure and follow road rules if there is a remote service.
I do not really follow circuit racing, either the Taxi's or any other series, and could not give a toss if they wish people to wear mankinis and flouro wigs as flag marshalls.

Basically for Gravel/Bitumen Rally:-
Advise them to come equipped for comfort, rain, heat, food, drink and dark.

Cheers
Thirsty

[Factor]

Well what can I say

First I should acknowledge Mr Trinders strong response. That was appropriate.

Secondly is there someone in CAMS who sits in the corner dreaming this stuff up. Like Cathy - give me any more rules about officiating and I won't do it anymore. Whilst I am not entirely happy with the in-car rules I can live with them. But mandating what I wear as a volunteer official in an area that demonstrably no more dangerous than a spectator is just lunacy. If you mandate that you need to explain to spectators (all three of them) that they too must wear certain clothes.

So silly it is beyond comprehension.

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Mike Cherry

Kinda in the same vein, at the State Rallysprint at Nabiac yesterday, competitors were required to wear helmets during recce.
This is a speed controlled activity.
The speed is controlled by a course car, manned by event officials and, I believe, an event Steward.
None of the occupants of the course car were required to wear helmets.
I would like to see the TRA for both cases for this one.

Mike - was that in the supp regs?

[Mike Cherry]

Na.

[Dave Kelly]

Originally Posted by Mike Cherry

Kinda in the same vein, at the State Rallysprint at Nabiac yesterday, competitors were required to wear helmets during recce.
This is a speed controlled activity.
The speed is controlled by a course car, manned by event officials and, I believe, an event Steward.
None of the occupants of the course car were required to wear helmets.
I would like to see the TRA for both cases for this one.

Watch out... soon some BYT will decide that helmets also need to be worn for scrutiny, drivers briefing and, while we are at it, when filling out event documentation . After all, those things are also "part" of the "activity" in the absolute broadest context.

Seriously though, to reiterate Factors comment, bouquets also for Col's response.

It is ridiculous AGAIN that CAMS (this time) through its Officials Commission (AOC) is setting off on such an inquiry without first having the good sense or decency to liaise with or even inform their other Commissions?

Cheers (and awaiting reporting and having this post also removed!),

David

PS Oh and yeah, I forgot that I am meant to say in all posts from hereon in ... the new CAMS Website is the bestest eva... I just luv it.. like heaps ...

[Factor]

Originally Posted by Mike Cherry

Na.

Stuffed if I know how they would enforce it then. Its not required pursuant to Schedule D and not in the supp regs. No enforceable rule then.

Apart from the fact its pointless.

[Griffo]

Originally Posted by Factor

Stuffed if I know how they would enforce it then. Its not required pursuant to Schedule D and not in the supp regs. No enforceable rule then.

Apart from the fact its pointless.

Must point out that it was 1 of the 3 stewards who demanded that helmets be worn in recce right after the C of C said helmets didn't have to be worn....

Happens a lot, maybe one day someone won't care about holding up the event to argue the point with a steward over this sort of rubbish....

Hey Factor want to come down & have a run in our rallysprint later in the year..

[Mike Cherry]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Griffo

Must point out that it was 1 of the 3 stewards who demanded that helmets be worn in recce right after the C of C said helmets didn't have to be worn....

If one of the Stewards knew of a regulation that required such a thing, then it is their duty to draw this to the CoC's attention.
If there is no regulation and the Stewards, in conjunction with the Organisers have conducted a TRA with the result that helmets must be worn, then the CoC would have been in a position to issue a bulletin prior to the briefing announcing such.
AFAIK, these are the only conditions that can result in this requirement.

Happens a lot, maybe one day someone won't care about holding up the event to argue the point with a steward over this sort of rubbish....

So, did the Competitors think this an unreasonable instruction? (and without a regulation to refer to or the afforementioned TRA, this would have been unenforceable) or were they quite happy to comply?

[Griffo]

Can't speak on behalf of those I didn't talk too regarding it but for me & a few other competitors, we laughed & thought ****ing idiots look at the car leading recce & just went & made notes so the event would get under way.
My initial thought was how hard that made it for double entered crews with different Navs. Normally some people in that circumstance do recce in their 4wd road car..

As a side note this particular steward was over herd asking another steward not officiating at the event why people were not wearing their driving suits at drivers briefing....

[Mike Cherry]

That's fair enough.

Cos' it was TFH. (as in hot)

[Griffo]

Originally Posted by Mike Cherry

Cos' it was TFH. (as in hot)

Correct......

[Dave Kelly]

Originally Posted by Griffo

...As a side note this particular steward was over herd asking another steward not officiating at the event why people were not wearing their driving suits at drivers briefing....

... And some Stewards wonder why when charges or decisions they they have made come before Tribunals through the appeal process (such as I have sat on/chaired from time to time in my role as a Tribune... see page 6 of the attached) with all too much regularity the decision of the Stewards gets overturned!

There is MUCH more training needed for Stewards and whilst there are many that are really excellent, the few gung-ho types that seem to want to reinvent rules and regs (or fail to adhere to even basic following of due process or reasonable rights for an accused to prepare a defence etc) to presumably suit some Stewards own prejudices; sadly all too often makes a mockery of the "first instance judicial decision process" (i.e. Stewards hearings and other more general pronouncements of Stewards), and leaves the clients (thats competitors, event organisers, other officials, interested onlookers etc) all scratching their heads wondering what the hell is going on?

No wonder a no (or low) BS approach to motor sport is gaining such currency with many many people in motor sport here in Australia!

Meanwhile, CAMS simply laments and thinks it is sad or somehow misguided for people within the sport to look at taking their business elsewhere such as AMSAG or the AASA... rather than confront the issue head on and see that too much BS and an over zealous approach to treating people in the sport like they are idiots is the cancer that those in East Malvern (including the Board) MUST confront and resolve!

We can all of course laugh at silly situations like being made to wear helmets during Recce (or even driving suits during briefings etc) ... and mostly take it on the chin as yet another zealot carrying on without any real idea of what the regs actually provide and/or what straightforward common sense ought dictate... However, it is a creeping cancer as far as I am concerned and one that appears to not only be ignored by the paid administration and senior Board hierarchy, but seemingly championed as it absolutely suits their purposes (or porpoises if you prefer cetaceans or sea mammals ) to further distance the ownership of the sport and the organisation from its true owners (all the clubs and us as its constituent members).

Again, I await deletion of my post as here yet again I overtly make specific criticism of the CAMS hierarchy and how they continue to fail to see the real need for urgent and serious change.

Briefly yours,

David

..and for those wondering... yes, I am still obliged to say [irony] how truly wonderful and fabulously functional for all the new CAMS website is. [/irony]. Only 98 posts to go of professing my support!

[old man]

Originally Posted by Griffo

Must point out that it was 1 of the 3 stewards who demanded that helmets be worn in recce right after the C of C said helmets didn't have to be worn....

Happens a lot, maybe one day someone won't care about holding up the event to argue the point with a steward over this sort of rubbish....

Hey Factor want to come down & have a run in our rallysprint later in the year..

Hey Griffo,

Were did "recce" come from anyway - there is no mention of doing a recce in the Supp Regs at all.

SORRY GUYS, AS YOU WERE - I HAVE JUST FOUND IT doh!


Did the course car containing the Steward & other Officials have a roll bar fitted, just in case, as they weren't wearing helmets!!!!