"Pointless Rules" and BS - State Your Case Here!

[Ausrally]

To quote Spac from another thread....

Originally Posted by Spac

So, if its not rules and BS that are keeping people away, then what is it? Why is it that AMSAG and AASA, who pride themselves on not having pointless rules and no BS - are both growing while CAMS' shrinks?

Post your "pointless rule" and "BS" issue here.

Post away

[MattC]

Originally Posted by Ausrally

To quote Spac from another thread....



Post your "pointless rule" and "BS" issue here.

Post away

Suits!!!!!! drivers must wear gloves but navs hands dont matter

thats number 1 of about 100

[Spac]

Suits.
Expensive licences (L2 used to work for all sub-ARC rallies).
Talk of mandatory HANS.
Expensive entry fees, largely due to expensive permit fees and needing to accomodate stewards etc.
Too many essential officials.
The ENTIRE officals' licencing system.
Licence lectures and OLTs.
Stupid, irrelevant rules like tow hooks.
Time and expense in obtaining a log book for non-metropolitan competitors.
Back-dating licence renewals.
Unreliable licence renewal process.
Lousy website that is nearly impossible to navigate.
NSW rally rego.


The basic point is that as customers, we've been treated very poorly by CAMS. And while some of the abovementioned issues have been eventually, relucatantly reversed, the general 'vibe' is clearly that the competitors are considered to be a cash-cow and/or an inconvience (depending upon the exact situation) - and never feel 'valued' or even considered.
The widespread migration to non-CAMS motorsport shows that its not just gravel rally-people who feel this way.

The secondary point is that as share-holders, we've been treated very poorly by CAMS. We've deliberately been dis-empowered, lied to, and generally allowed only very minimal input into how "our CAMS" operates, meaning that we cannot even try to improve things.

Everybody has their tipping point, and clearly many of us are very close to that point.

[fro]

PRC weight limits that aren't enforced at anything below ARC level, and there are already enough other rules that prevent "lightweighting" a car.

Eleventy different classes (Classic/Historic/ClubRallyCar/Excel/PRC/GroupN/S2000/Showroom/ScheduleR+Rallysprint, and that's just gravel) with barely any recognition of anything outside of outright.

Running events: Compliance checkers and risk matrices.

Split fields at the one event... with differing apparel requirements. Because you're less likely to burn if you're car 35 instead of car 25.

There's plenty more, these are just the ones that popped into my head.

[MattC]

Dallas here is the dollar v km data from the rallies last year, whilst AMSAG is cheaper it is not significantly so. If any data is wrong i appologise

Rally $ comp total km $per km
BAGO 350 124 185 2.822580645
BAY stag 490 144 284 3.402777778
BAY SHRT 355 116 193 3.060344828
Lithgow 495 142 289 3.485915493
r m v 375 119 384 3.151260504
natcap 495 123 225 4.024390244
safari 355 146 289 2.431506849


AMSAG $ km comp total km
jenolan 220 105 2.095238095
bathurst 535 235 2.276595745
cowra 550 235 475 2.340425532
oberon 290 186 346 1.559139785

[fro]

Oh, and we also have the Australian Rally Championship, the Australian Classic Tarmac Rally Championship and the Australian Modern Tarmac Rally Championship, which all ran together at Rally Tasmania, yet all run under different vehicle eligibility rules?

And we wonder why the media don't give us more coverage. It'd take them ten minutes to explain what the differences are between them, let alone have them care.

[Jme]

A biggest BS rule is turbo restrictors. a) they add to cost b) they serve no real purpose. c) they are rarely/never checked.

People talk of safety and speed - I clocked 186kph on Fernside Way in a blind rally... I clocked 211kph at Myall. Ok, it's a custom box/ratio's but the restrictor is pointless. We add cost, then engineer around it.

I scroll the maximums after each stage on the STACK. It's very rare that I max under 170kph in stage. 171 Greenhills, 174 that first stage in Kowen... etc

[fro]

Fuel line nonsense.

[Factor]

Ah - so many rules - so little time.

How about we take the manual section by section starting with say the General Requirements and work our way forward from there.

Here I will start
Definitions - Ballast

This is the very first entry in the general requirements:

It is permitted to complete the weight of the automobile by one or several ballasts on condition that each is a strong and unitary block, fixed by means of tools with the possibility to fix seals, placed on the floor of the cockpit, visible and sealed by the scrutineers. Ballast shall be affixed to the body by fasteners which conform to the following minimum specification – class 8.8 bolts, each of 8mm diameter, utilising reinforcement plates of at least 75mm x 50mm x 3mm under each bolt. There shall be at least one bolt per 20kg or part thereof of ballast in each ballast block with a minimum of two bolts. On automobiles with composite coachwork, ballast shall be attached to the chassis of the automobile forward of the midpoint of the wheelbase.


So its got to be a strong and unitary block, - I have to prove its strong - how do I do that, and its got to be fixed by means of tools - does that mean I can hit it with a hammer till it pokes through the floor and is sort of jammed in there.

I could go on but you get my drift.

You are going to regret starting this one Dallas.

Point is I have written vast lumps of this stuff to CAMS in the past, go and look in the box marked Letters from Crawford in Campbell Andrea's office.

[Factor]

BODY SHELL

The main coachwork structure of an automobile which, in the case of an automobile not having a separate chassis, constitutes the fundamental structure of the automobile. Components such as doors, bonnet, bootlid and mudguards which are readily demountable are not deemed to be part of the body shell.

So what is the body shell in the case of a car with a chassis

What does readily demountable mean

Why the **** do we care

[Factor]

Bodywork/Coachwork

externally: all the entirely suspended part of the automobile licked by the airstream;
internally: cockpit and boot.

My favourite rule of all time, I just love licked by airstream and I just dont understand the definition in so far as internally is concerned

[Factor]

CAn I stop yet or do you want me to go on.

[Factor]

Lets Jump to Rally car regs and start with noise

Methods of Measurement of Emitted Noise
Rally Cars
1. SoUNd LEVEL METER
(i) must comply with AS 37-1967; (ii) must be used on FAST dynamic characteristic; (iii) must be used on A weighting network; (iv) must be calibrated at six-monthly intervals.
2. TEST SITE
(i) must be in the open air; (ii) must be substantially level and covered with concrete, asphalt or other similar hard material providing
acoustic reflection; (iii) must consist of an area bounded by a rectangle having sides at least 3m from the outline of the vehicle under
test; (iv) must contain no objects other than the vehicle and the sound level meter operator.
3. MICRoPHoNE PoSITIoN
(i) must be equal to the height of the geometric centre of the orifice of the exhaust outlet, but not less than 200mm above the ground;
(ii) must be located 525mm (±25mm) from the geometric centre of the orifice at the exhaust outlet; (iii) must be at an angle of 45° (±10°) from the direction of travel of the vehicle at the side nearest the orifice of the
exhaust outlet;
(Note: the 45° should be selected so as to achieve the greatest distance between the microphone and the
vehicle.)
(iv) for vehicles fitted with two or more exhaust outlets spaced more than 300mm apart or connected to separate silencers, each exhaust outlet shall be treated separately as if it were the only one.
4. MEASUREMENT METHod
At normal operating temperature the engine shall be brought to:
4000 RPM for four-cylinder engines
3500 RPM for six-cylinder engines
3000 RPM for eight-cylinder engines
5000 RPM for rotary engines
as determined by the tachometer and stabilised at those limits for a sufficiently long period of time to allow a noise level measurement to be made.

So where does it say that the sound must be checked by the meter described in section 1. How do I know if it is used on the dynamic and weighting that is specified, who has to calibrate it

The test has to be in an imaginary square with nothing in it other than the operator and the vehicle, so the operator cannot have the meter with him.

Why is there a difference between 4/6/8 and rotary engines, does my V10 not have to comply with anything, why dont we test for stupid noisy antilag.

And of course this rule was suspended for the factory Fords. at Rally Q

Etc ETc

I can play this game forever.

But I always love the way CAMS writes its rules, they have yet to beat me when I have consulted judicially

[Dave Kelly]

Originally Posted by Factor

Bodywork/Coachwork

....internally: cockpit and boot.

Originally Posted by Factor

... I just dont understand the definition in so far as internally is concerned

I have consulted some experts in the field and am helpfully advised the latter refers to one of these Andrew... but remember JUST one!



DAK

[Mike Cherry]

So where is the picture of the cockpit?.
Sorry.