ARC Tipping

[Mark]

Originally posted by Mark
The three people that are of interest to me, are:

-Atkinson. His car and his driving looked pretty good a few weeks ago on the 'box'.

*Cough*

Mark

[Spac]

ARC tipping? Is that like cow tipping?

Mawk, I'd be impressed if you could pick that it had "irregular" pistons in the calipers (or whatever it was) from the box.


Not that its any of our business, but I've gotta wonder about a newly ProDrive built car not being legal, and the possible ramifications of that... Like "we just paid you $xx0,000 for this car, $yy,000 for the event and its all illegal thanks to you guys"...

[dk_mfoto]

I wonder if the specially brought in Prodrive engineer that the Atkinsons were crowing about during the CH10 coverage has skipped town already Hopefully it all turns out to be legit. It really would be an enormous let down to have this taken away from them at this point...

[Ric Cary]

Ah, the old solid rod in the booster trick, me thinks the scrutineers didn`t check enough red and blue cars they would have found enough rods for a game fishing trip. They might also like to check the leverage ratio on the brake pedal if thats included in the group N regs. the formula is simple
Antilag =Limited vacuum= unreliable assistance / Drivers have`nt got legs like hydraulic rams = somethings got to be a little fat

And if you want to believe this is the only time anyone has used this little "Trick" I`ve got a lovely bridge you can buy cheap.

[Matt Dyne]

I was SHOWN what to do by a man from the blue camp when I asked the question of them a few years ago...

Innocent me "Sheesh, your guys must have iron legs to push the brakes when the antilags working over time"

Boy in blue response " Nah mate...it's easy...you just..."

I can guarantee you that every other car, when it gets checked, will have the standard booster and pedal !!

Matt

[Ric Cary]

Karl,
I`m just guessing this might be the anomaly of course I could be wrong ( its happened once before I think) but I`ll wager every blue car and certainly every red car in WA has "the fishing option" fitted and probably quite a few other cars as well.It would seem that the scrutineers used the fine tooth comb on Chris`s car cause they haven`t been able to find this little trick on any of the others for a number of years probably just giving the upstart a little dusting up to keep him in his place and all that. Just goes to show how little most scrutineers really know about competition cars Eg jacking up 4wd cars to check front wheel bearings,concerns about "petrol tanks" inside cabins... Ah it might be for the water spray! etc etc I could go on but won`t bore you

[Spac]

Ric, I think you're right in that last post - not so much about the actual nature of the "problem", but the enforcement of it.
I have been reliably told that Mr Hapgood "would only pick up on it if it was blatant" and that there have been plenty of times where blue and red cars have elicited responses from Mr Hapgood along the lines of "You bloody idiots, you should have at least filled in the original pivot hole in the brake pedal"...

But none of this explains why it had to be sent to the FIA - either it was really obvious and the Atkinsons would have been booted from the results on the spot, or it was something really ambiguous but they wanted to ping the Atkinsons...

If the latter is the case, and particularly if it sticks, then I think they've just created a new crowd favourite and a new villian in the ARC... The young Atkinson brothers against the nasty ogre that is "the powers that be"....
I'm not saying that this would nessecaraly be so clear cut, but the Australian media and rally people in general love the underdog...

[Ric Cary]

The really ridiculous part about the "fishing option" is that the cars are all but undrivable without it and everybody knows it goes on why don`t they just make the internals of the booster free just like the computor is.
Ps does anybody know what this super group N is I`ve noticed it mentioned on UK sites but can`t find any regs

[Jme]

Maybe I'm a skeptic.... but the Subaru factory cars ran "unmarked slick-like" definately non-rally tyres on the super special and they turned a blind eye to (apparently) what even blind Freddy could see...... but nailed the Atkinsons at post event scrutineer.

Also.... again I may be a skeptic- but I believe in motorsport a "non-performance" part is often used as an "escape clause" by teams that are done like a dinner.

ie. Competitor/Manufacturer A gets caught with a grossly illegal "your kidding" setup...... and cops a "springs behind the brake pistons to stop knockoff" charge. You can't tell me this type of stuff doesn't happen.

That's one reason we run PRC. We refuse to "push the legalities" of GpN..... and be at the mercy of egotistical scrutineers.

But hey- it aint sport up there it's marketing, and apparently it's fair game to exclude basic sporting principles such as "fair-play" and "even-handedness".

The ARC has "commercial partners" now.... and these interests need to be met over and above any percieved sporting principles. It's a world where Network TEN can do as they please, and sell "overly advantageous" coverage of certain teams, even if this automatically disadvantages other teams.

Nobody is equal. There is a pecking order. Some entities interests are served readily, regardless of the effect this has on others.

And ARCom, Rallycorp etc believe this is "how it should be".

The Atkinsons spoiled the party......

[msgofast]

I heard today that the reason Chris was pulled up was for rear brake pads, the pad material swept area is more than STD, std they backing plate over hangs the material, Prodrive cars have Pagids which are cut from blanks, so the material is the same size as the backing plates.

[Ric Cary]

For Farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrx Sake what would there be 1.5 mm all round I wonder if old mate Ross Dereaux found this terrible breach those bloody cheating Atkinsons should just give up, be drummed out of the sport, and made to stand in Myers window naked with a sign around their necks confessing to the Truro Murders/ 911 and any other major unsolved crime of the last 100 years.


Al- Queda Motorsport Brakes
Destabilising from the underneath

[Davie]

Hmmm makes you wonder, don't the factory boys use Pro-drive spec stuff.

Things like brakes pads?

[AussieNav]

Maybe I'm a skeptic.... but the Subaru factory cars ran "unmarked slick-like" definately non-rally tyres on the super special and they turned a blind eye to (apparently) what even blind Freddy could see...... but nailed the Atkinsons at post event scrutineer.

Jme, the direct answer is YES you are a sceptic.
But there was a lot of talk about the tyres and their legality at the super specials.

Subaru Factory cars ran a WRC tyre that is of the directional type.

It was actually mounted in the reverse direction, so the inside edge of the tyre is now to the outside. this block (or what is the outside block on a normal tyre) is not cut through to form small blocks as is the normal procedure, so the outside now forms a total solid edge that will obviously now not squirm and distort as it would with smaller blocks with gaps.
Tricky and definately in the grey area of the rules (my opinion) but deemed to be legal on that occassion.

I'm sorry if that sounds confusing, but going off their times on those stages it didn't work anyway.

[raybak]

What does everyone think now that the Atkinson's have been disqualified? Apparently the brake booster was illegal, although all the Prodrive PWRC cars run it.

Ray

[Ric Cary]

The FIA had been asked to comment on the matter of various brake components
fitted to car 3 during the event.

The part in question, the brake booster, was found not to comply with the
regulations for FIA Group N and the Stewards of the meeting therefore found the
vehicle to be ineligible.


Weeellll Golleee Sargeant, I just don`t know how that rod got in there
Some nasty bitter and twisted team manager might have protested every other 4wd turbo car at that event and got them all excluded. what a crock every bloody 4wd GrpN car has the same thing done to them the bloody scrutineers should hang thier heads in shame. and if there was any hint of collusion eg boys we will be checking boosters. The whole bloody lot of them should be thrown out.