ARC Tipping

[msgofast]

Ayes heard this last week, i was told the rod in the booster was ok now for grp N ?

it was something else.

[Ric Cary]

" In the case of a car fitted with servo-assisted brakes, this device may be DISCONNECTED" that would mean uplugging the vacuum hose " the same applies for Anti-lock braking systems. if the anti-lock braking system (ABS) is disconnected or removed, the use of a mechanical rear braking distributor homologated by the manufacturer in a VO ( variant option) is authorised.

Unless there has been a bulletin released since last night you can`t run the rod all you are supposed to do is pull the vacuum off. it doesn`t even say you can replace the master cylinder sleeve it or do anybloody thing Which is the biggest load of crap I`ve seen in a long while you can`t drive the bloody things with antilag and vac assisted brakes cause sometimes you got vac and sometimes you don`t.

[msgofast]

Reduce the throttle opening and anti lag, i know a few guys who do this, cheaper long term too...them trees cost money when ya hit em

[Ric Cary]

Ok Karl I agree you can drive them,almost! try big cams and big lag it gets most exciteing to say the least sometimes you`ve got a nice pedal sometimes you`ve got a brick wall its a bit like the"this property is protected by Smith& Wesson two nights a week........you pick which night ". And I`m with you regarding GRP N thats why my new toy is going to be PRC well actually more like GRPn Plus. just the sensible mods its really not worth building a GrpN car unless you have your own massage the rules department on the payroll.

[AussieNav]

It is definately not impossible, or even near impossible to drive a Subaru without this illegal Gp-N modification.

Tony Sullens has a PRC WRX that runs a totally standard set-up with the master cylinder and I must say that his car also has a heap of grunt and also runs with Anti-lag.

Even though he runs a dog box in the car he doesn't frequently left foot break (which would cause vacuum problems) and seems to get around the stages at a fair pace to say the least.

You could make the mod for your PRC car then, but is not something that HAS to be done to a Gp-N car to make it safe or driveable though.

Talk to Southie or someone that knows a bit about anti-lag and the technical side of things and you won't have to start making your group-n car a cheater for know reason.

[msgofast]

Originally posted by AussieNav

Tony Sullens has a PRC WRX that runs a totally standard set-up with the master cylinder and I must say that his car also has a >>>heap of grunt<<< and also runs with Anti-lag.

Must have a good tuner then

Talk to Southie or someone that knows a bit about anti-lag and the technical side of things and you won't have to start making your group-n car a cheater for know reason.

arr....what would he know

[Spac]

The scrutineers DO know about the rod-in-the-booster trick, and have chosen to turn a blind eye more than once before today... Like pretty well every single ARC round since the first Gp N turbo car with anti-lag turned up...

I have no doubt that it's a witch hunt, a travesty, a severe corruption of justice, and that someone should be strung up for it...

Interesting to know where the "motivation" for chasing the Atinsons came from - apparently not the Toyota team (apparetnyl they were dead-set against the DQ'ing), presumably not the Subaru team (manufacturer points), presumably none of the privateers (why would they care?)... Leaves Mitsu looking likely, but then again, they have benefited from some blind eyes being turned on similar matters before today...

[Jme]

Originally posted by AussieNav

You could make the mod for your PRC car then, but is not something that HAS to be done to a Gp-N car to make it safe or driveable though.

Talk to Southie or someone that knows a bit about anti-lag and the technical side of things and you won't have to start making your group-n car a cheater for know reason.

Dale's right , It doesn't have to be done. We have never done it. Darren Gee's car is safe, so is Yama's and they stop. I'm sure many other cars around have the standard setup and are safe. You just run less throttle crack.... Craig's PRC car has a pedal box- at the request of our engine tuner for this exact reason.

The problem is that it is falsely viewed as a perceived safety issue by some. That's BS- It's a performance issue. It's illegal- they got caught.

The real issue is why were just the Atko's pinged when many cars in GpN had illegal brakes, (assumed- yes, but I bet I could target 3 areas on the brake system and get most of them) and is there "even-handed" scrutineering- or are some people targeted, and others not???

[Bede]

I thought ARCOM was worried about getting younger people into the sport. When a relatively young crew win and they get disqualified for something that is 'supposedly' a relatively common practice, I am sure that won't help the situation.

I can't speak for others, but it sure makes me want to try and make it into the ARC... NOT!

[Spac]

Reasonably reliable source tells me that the booster was entirely gutted, not just 'rodded'... Saves oh, let me see... about 200gms I'd reckon...

Seems more than a little stupid that the 'rodding' is ignored wholesale, but saving one fifth of one kilogram is such a horrific breach of the rules...

Like JME said, if they enforce the rules fairly, evenly and sensibly, we'll be happy.
Like Bede said, if they want to appear to be a welcoming, positive sport, this is NOT the way to do it.

[AussieNav]

I very much doubt that it was Mitsubishi who put the scrutineers onto this item.
Scott Pedders car was checked at scut for the same irregularities and was found to be all clear, which as Ed's car from last year would seem to suggest that that would clear all factory Mistu's and give them nothing to worry about.
But I do think if you listen to some of the stories and talk around the traps, it was not Misubishis doing at all!!

[Spac]

You're probably right - the rumours I've been hearing now say that it specifically was not the Mitsu team.

[AussieNav]

To clarify the FIA rule in discussion here, this is a note from ARC Scrutineer Barry Habgood as to how the rule is to be read and interpreted.


G'day all
Following recent events I thought I should clear up exactly what the FIA
means in Appendix J Article 254 6.5 "In the case of a car fitted with
servo assisted brakes, this device may be disconnected."
For the FIA this means you may change or modify the rod and go straight to the master cylinder piston, you may blank off the vacuum supply. No parts
may be removed from the booster or material added. (Apart from the above
rod, of course.)
There is nothing mentioned to allow changing the pivot point of the pedal.
Please contact me if you have any further questions.

[Ric Cary]

For the FIA this means you may change or modify the rod and go straight to the master cylinder piston, you may blank off the vacuum supply.

Appendix J-Art254 Article 4

All modifications which are not allowed by the present regulations are EXPRESSLY FORBIDDEN.
the only work which may be carried out on the car is that neccesary for its normal servicing, or the replacement of parts worn through use or accident.
the limits of the modifications and fittings allowed are specified hereinafter.
APART FROM THESE,ANY PART WORN THROUGH USE OR ACCIDENT CAN ONLY BE REPLACED BY AN ORIGINAL PART IDENTICAL TO THE DAMAGED ONE




Appendix J-Art254 Article 6.5 Braking System
With the exception of the MODIFICATIONS AUTHORISED by this article the braking system must be original or homologated in option variant(VO)

"In the case of of a car fitted with servo-assisted brakes this device may be DISCONNECTED. the same applies for anti lock braking systems"

"It is permitted to add a spring in the bore of the calliper and to replace the seals and dust covers of the calliper"


Ok a couple of questions
1) Where is the bulletin allowing the Rod and yet not allowing the gutting of the booster cannister because the rules obviously say NOTHING is allowed except disconection
2) Without strengthening the cannister how does the rod work assuming their is a bulletin allowing it
3) Without removing or altering the inside of the Booster cannister how does the rod get to the master cylinder.once again assuming there is a bulletin allowing it

[Lyndall]

Originally posted by Spac
Interesting to know where the "motivation" for chasing the Atinsons came from...

I asked Col Trinder this at the BMSC meeting last week. The scrutineers have to advise at the first Stewards meeting of the event (for an ARC, usually held on the Friday after scrutineering but before the event proper starts) what items they intend to check on which placings (eg. brakes of 1st O/R vehicle, gearbox of 2nd O/R, engine of 1st F16, etc.). The letters advising what is to be checked are also pre-typed prior to the event starting.

As cars come over the podium/book in to the final control, whoever has finished in the identified placings in the identified categories is handed the relevant letter. So it was predetermined by the event scrutineers that 1st O/R was going to have their brakes checked. The event just unfolded that the Atkinsons were 1st for the weekend, so therefore their brakes had to be inspected.

Based on last year's form, most people would have expected the winner would come from one of the three factory teams or perhaps Scott Pedder - I don't think many would have predicted the Atkinson's would win a heat let alone the whole weekend (including Chris and Ben!).