Manufacturer rivalry (was:Bathurst RSL Club Rally)

[fro]

Rallying a Triumph Stag makes rallying a Camira look like a sensible option.

But then again, so does rallying a Rover SD1, or a Mini, and people drive around in the forest in those...

It takes all kinds. It's just a shame so many of them are sicko's.

[TK]

Originally posted by Spac
or (B) Catching fire due to electrical faults.

Spac, I believe you actually need an electric current at some place in the system for this problem to arise

[tortfeaser]

Originally posted by fro
But then again, so does rallying a Rover SD1,

When Bob Blandford wants to sell, tell him to give me a call. Most eloquent rally car in the forest.

Originally posted by fro
or a Mini, and people drive around in the forest in those...

And quite successfully too. Took quite a bit to stop them winning 4 Montes in a row, the Tulip Rally a couple of times, and how many other internationals. Only just out of homologation after winning the Safari A6 class not too long ago.

Dammit, I'm going out to the shed.

[tortfeaser]

Originally posted by fro
It takes all kinds. It's just a shame so many of them are sicko's.

Ain't nobody won nothin' in a 'B, a '7, or a 'dore. A Mini, on the other hand, TR8s, any number of FIATs, Lancias, Stratos, Alpines, Citroens, and various whistling pigs, boxers or other weird ***** have won plenty. Character. Just what the bland clubbie or WRCar needs to grab the attention of the average punter. That, and a whole lot of engineering talent.

[Spac]

Originally posted by tortfeaser
Ain't nobody won nothin' in a 'B, a '7, or a 'dore. A Mini, on the other hand, TR8s, any number of FIATs, Lancias, Stratos, Alpines, Citroens, and various whistling pigs, boxers or other weird ***** have won plenty. Character. Just what the bland clubbie or WRCar needs to grab the attention of the average punter. That, and a whole lot of engineering talent.

Hmmm... Numerous NZ and USA national titles have gone to RX-7s (and RX-3s!). I think the ACT Gold Cup was won by an RX-7 at least twice.
I like Italian cars (well, the cool ones anyhow), so I won't diagree there (Fiat 124AC P1 car - drool), and I'll even tolerate the fench things, but the pommy stuff??!??

Bah... When did a Mini actually win something where there was competiton (ie not when it was specifically in a class for Minis...)?
Or did it just 'do a Bradbury'? Oh, I see. That long ago? Who was driving? Moses?

Bristish cars: If people who liked them had a clue, there'd be at least one XJS rally car out there. Maybe someone did build one, but it caught fire and burnt to the ground on the way to rego.
Lemme try that again..

British cars: Do you have no need for durability, reliability, or performance? Do you enjoy rewiring are car in the middle of stage? Do you own shares in an oil company? Had a nasty experience with gaskets? Is the journey more important than the destination? Does rust turn you on?
Then it's time to look to the old dart for your next rally car.

Having said all of that, if I'd been left to my own devices, I'd have probably owned at least one Dolomite Sprint by now...
But at least I'd have learnt!

[tortfeaser]

Originally posted by Spac
Having said all of that, if I'd been left to my own devices, I'd have probably owned at least one Dolomite Sprint by now...
But at least I'd have learnt!

Been there, done that at the 2002 East Coast Classic. Tore both engine mounts out in one go off the line - thus needing the services of bush yokels to source Triumph engine mounts close to Bathurst. Not a problem - there was a guy with a mucho large shed full of stuff about 15 minutes out of town Thanks to John Green for the help putting them in on the BLCC forecourt.

Never mind the electric shock every time you switched the electric overdrive on whilst touching something metal in the car, or the fuel pissing out of the carb onto the alternator. Coke bottles make good alternator fuel shields when used with cable ties. Thanks to Fro for the just in case extinguisher that he always carries in the 808. Just in case it should burst into flames.

[tortfeaser]

World Rally Championship results since 1973 (the year the WRC was established, after the Mini finished its works competition history). Dunno up to when, list is from http://www.rallycars.com/Cars/wrc_statistics.html

In summary, Mazda 3, Datsun/Nissan 9, dirty sickos 126 (includes Audi, Lancia, Fiat, Saab, Alpine, Porsche, Talbot).

Car Models (wins in the WRC)

Audi Quattro 23
(Quattro 21)
(Sport Quattro 2)
Audi 200 Quattro 1

BMW 2002 tii 1
BMW M3 1

Citroën Xsara T4 WRC 10
Citroën Xsara Kit Car 2

Datsun 160J 3
Datsun 240Z 1
Datsun Violet 1
Nissan Violet GT 3
Nissan 200SX 1

Fiat 131 Abarth 18
Fiat 124 Abarth 3

Ford Escort RS 17
Ford Focus WRC 14
Ford Escort RS Cosworth 10
(Cosworth 8)
(WRC 2)
Ford Escort RS 1600 4
Ford Sierra RS Cosworth 1

Lancia Stratos HF 17
Lancia 037 Rally 6
Lancia Delta S4 5
Lancia Delta 46
(HF 4WD 11)
(Integrale 8V 14)
(Integrale 16V 13)
(HF Integrale 8)

Mazda 323 4wd 3

Mercedes 450 SLC 5.0 1
Mercedes 500 SLC 1

Mitsubishi Lancer Evo 26
(Evo VI 8)
(Evo V 5)
(Evo IV 6)
(Evo III 6)
(Evo II 1)
Mitsubishi Galant VR-4 6
Mitsubishi Colt 2

Opel Ascona 400 4
Opel Ascona 1
Opel Kadett GSi 16V 1

Peugeot 206 WRC 24
Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 16
(Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 9)
(Peugeot 205 Turbo 16 E2 7)
Peugeot 504 3
Peugeot 504 V6 Coupe 2

Porsche 911 2
(Carrera 1)
(SC 1)

Renault-Alpine A110 6
Renault 5 Turbo 4
(5 Turbo 3)
(Maxi 5 Turbo 1)
Renault 17 Gordini 1
Renault 5 GT Turbo 1

Saab 96 V4 2
Saab 99 EMS 1
Saab 99 Turbo 1

Subaru Impreza 39
(WRC 28)
(555 11)
Subaru Legacy RS 4wd 1

Talbot Sunbeam Lotus 2

Toyota Celica Twin cam Turbo 6
Toyota Celica 30
(Turbo 4wd 16)
(GT-Four 13)
(Toyota Celica GT-4 1)
Toyota Celica 1
Toyota Corolla 2
Toyota Corolla WRC 4

VW Golf GTI 16V 1

As for the Mini - between them the 1071 S and 1275 S won the Monte Carlo Rally three times officially and were disqualified for a technical lighting error (however a very dubious one) for a fourth win, in the years 1964 - 1967. In 1968, Hopkirk was third.

The 1275 S won 23 international Rallies for the Works between its April 1964 Tulip-winning debut and september 1969's assault on the Tour de France. It was succeeded by the 1275GT Clubman, which used much of the same mechanical know-how to finish second on the june 1970 Scottish, Hopkirk's last Abingdon outing.

For the Mini, between '64 and '69 in events comparable to those in the WRC:

1275 Cooper S won:
- Monte Carlo: 1965(AJB 44B), 1967(LBL 6D)
- 1000 Lakes: 1964(AJB 33B), 1965(AJB 33B), 1966(JBL 493D)
- Tulip Rallye: 1964(AJB 66B), 1965(AJB 33B)
- Circuit of Ireland: 1965(CRX 89B), 1966(DJB 92B), 1967(GRX 5D)
- RAC Rally: 1965(DJB 93B)
- Alpine Rally: 1964(AJB 55B), 1965(AJB 33B)
- Acropolis Rally: 1966(GRX 311D)
- Polish Rally: 1965(CRX 89B), 1966(GRX 309D)
- Geneva Rally: 1965(EBL 55C), 1967(LRX 827E)
- Munich-Vienna-Budapest: 1965(CRX 89B), 1966(HJB 656D)
- Czechoslovakia: 1965(EJB 55C), 1966(JBL 494D)

The 1071 Cooper S won:
- Alpine Rally: 1963(AJB 55B)
- Monte Carlo Rally: 1964(33 EJB)

The 997 Cooper S won:
- Tulip Rally: 1962(737 ABL)
- Baden-Baden Rally: 1962(737 ABL)
- Geneva Rally: 1962(737 ABL)

And this wasn't against a bunch of no-hope competitors, but against Fords, Porsches, Lancias, Alpines, and Citroens.

[Spac]

And this wasn't against a bunch of no-hope competitors, but against Fords, Porsches, Lancias, Alpines, and Citroens.

If only the name "Lancia" wasn't in there, I could have had ever so much fun...

In all seriousness, those stats really need to include the number of cars that started the events, and possibly a note about the level of factory support.
We all know that Peugeot won heaps in the last few years because they had Marcus and because they were shovelling money into rallying - how many similar scenarios in the past have been lost to simple stats?

Where's Fro and his magical thread splitting powers now?

PS: I still hate the 8) emoticon.

[fro]

Spac, thread split as requested. 8)

[fro]

There's a few surprises in there. I mean, apart from the sicko Mini's and other marques with rally heritage...

Things like the BMW M3, Renault 17 Gordini or VW Golf GTI 16V make you wonder what they were up against, what era it was, and where the rally was. Having owned a Renault 17*, I can't see it being a great rally car. And it might rival a few Saab's for the title of ugliest car to win a rally as well.

* - Sure, I only owned it for three weeks, but hey...

[smee]

I do see the word Mazda appear in this list, but alas no R series.

Still not bad for a gear munching under powered (for it's day) car.

[TK]

Originally posted by smee
I do see the word Mazda appear in this list, but alas no R series.

Didn't Ingvar Carlsson win the first Rally Australia (albeit only an Asia-Pac round, not WRC) in a GTX/GTR/BFMR back in 1988? It was definitely the same body shape as your steed.

IIRC, the BMW M3 won in Corsica or San Remo (one of those tarmac rallies, anyway)

[RD Mullet]

Originally posted by tortfeaser
When Bob Blandford wants to sell, tell him to give me a call. Most eloquent rally car in the forest.

Why would Bob ever have traded up from the P76 to the TR8 and then ended up in the Rover is beyond me. Ah thats right we are talking about sicko's aren't we.

[tortfeaser]

I didn't know Bob was such a serial sicko. What a collection. He puts Spac to shame!

[Spac]

Originally posted by tortfeaser
I didn't know Bob was such a serial sicko. What a collection. He puts Spac to shame!

Owning ANY ONE one of those cars puts me to shame. Rallying any of them only makes it worse.

Hmm.. wonder if a Mazda 1500 would make a good historic car...


(See, this is the reasoning that is lacking in the minds of sickos - if only they'd stop and think "How is this going to work as a rally car?", instead of just thinking "Humber Super Snipe! Cool!! I'm gonna rally this!!!", we'd all be spared much angst).