CRE 2005 - want input?

[Miss]

Hi All,

Given the huge amount of interest from the public for the 2004 snowy hydro SouthCare Canberra Rally Experience the organisers are already planning what's what for the 2005 CRE.

For those of you that are interested in the nitty-gritty:
* Block 12 is our first choice - anyone strongly for or against this? Alternatives (we’re thinking Greenhills, Bluetts, depending on *certain aspects*)?
* We intend to get SouthCare on board once again. We had a mutually beneficial arrangement and are keen to build on it (using their community and corporate contacts, their charity status and so on, our ability to give them exposure).
* Once again, it will be a joint effort with SKDAC, LCCC and BMSC (pending club committee approval). We envisage a slightly different approach to the clubs' (and CAMS') involvement: we’re still aiming to achieve positive outcomes for the CRE, SouthCare, ACT/NSW rallying and the clubs.
* The format of the CRE will not change much (apart from necessary ones for the greater good of the planning and running schedule). We received a moderate amount of feedback (and lots of self-reflection) so far, have taken this on board and aim to rectify the areas needing improvement.

Some of the minor changes you may be interested in:
* Ticket price increase ($20, with possible booking fee for pre-paid tickets).
* Driver's sponsors will again, be catered for, however the procedures surrounding this will be tightened considerably. We found last time that while most sponsors were catered for, some people's sponsors missed out as people who were not on the list turned up expecting rides. This will NOT happen in 2005. Anyone not on the list will be considered a public punter without exception. This includes NOT having preference of ride. This is an approach we will be adopting regardless of people's feedback (and we make no apologies for that). This has been brought about by the unfortunate actions of a few who ruined the day for many more than anyone would think.
* New spectator point at Heimo's corner (the THR uphill).
* Identity passes will be issued prior to the day in most circumstances and security of the non-public area will be tightened and increased.
* The information pamphlet will spell out in excruciating detail the safety aspects of the, err, size and apparel of punters who we can (and can't) cater for. BIG SIGNS telling punters (for instance) "if your arts is this wide we may not be able to cater for you, if you are this young we can't cater for you, if you are wearing this we can't cater for you. Even in our lines of work we overestimated the average IQ for possible punters and their families.
* Possibly having CRE t-shirts for punters to buy. Proceeds to SouthCare, of course.
* Failure to accept a ride would mean forfeiture of ticket (to avoid punters waiting for a particular car). ***Lots of ranting deleted***. One idea thrown around was if a punter wanted a particular car, there's a very large "surcharge" involved.
* Possibly having a photo package option (at a price, we'll send you photos of you getting strapped in, some action shots, one with the driver afterwards etc). This is something we're keen to do but it's a big job and we're not sure it will be worth the effort. This idea has been in our minds since the very beginning. Do you guys think it will be popular enough to warrant the extra work?

The major change you may see for the 2005 CRE is a pre-payment option for punters. We had an overwhelming turn-up in 2004 and, significantly, a fair amount of people wanting to "reserve" tickets for the next one. We are looking at options of how to manage pre-paid tickets, our thoughts so far being:
1. Show up on the day and take your chances (no pre-payment).
2. E-mail (only, no snail mail) us your details, we'll email you a confirmation letter and approximate time of ride, and we will hold your ticket for 15 minutes. Present ID at time of arrival.
3. Send a stamped, self-addressed envelope to SouthCare with a cheque/money order and we'll send you your ticket (again, holding the ticket for a length of time or else they'll lose it). Present ID at the time of arrival.
4. (This is just an idea, we haven't asked anyone yet, it's only an option and not a favoured one at that) Online payment via bmsc website.

There are a huge amount of pros and cons with each of these options, mostly centred on the possibility of force majeure. Be assured we have brainstormed until our brains oozed out our ears and thought of many details for each option.

********************************

This post is here primarily to ask for your thoughts. If you think that any of these ideas (about ticketing or anything else) are good or you see one option being far better than the others, tell us why.

Now, for the purpose of all you forum dwellers out there: WE ARE AFTER CONTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK. If you have some feedback please tell us, but we will in all likelihood assume the see/speak/hear no evil stance if your “feedback” is not constructive. If you see a problem and can offer a solution, TELL US! If you see a problem and see no solution, tell us too, but tell us WHY.

We all (T, A and I) want to ensure the best outcome is achieved and are happy to elaborate on any of the above points/ideas if you're unsure and just want to know the details. Please constructively comment on any or all of the ideas above, or if you’ve got an idea that isn’t above we’d love to hear that too!

Eager for your feedback, ideas and solutions,
The CRE organisers.

[tortfeaser]

Wait 'till 2006? Don't want punter/media/participant fatigue? Just a thought - every two years might be good.

Photos would be cool, but don't really contribute to the aims of helping Southcare/ACT rallying.

I'll take the fat boys for a ride. Special queue and all.

[Miss]

Originally Posted by tortfeaser

Wait 'till 2006? Don't want punter/media/participant fatigue? Just a thought - every two years might be good.

Photos would be cool, but don't really contribute to the aims of helping Southcare/ACT rallying.

I'll take the fat boys for a ride. Special queue and all.

Participant fatigue is an issue... you think it's that much of an issue? We're looking at 3 weeks after RoC to get on the RoC publicity machine. We don't think punter fatigue is an issue, given the feedback we got after the 2004 day and that our promotion seemed to work really well...

Photos: the money would be the contribution, that's all. Lots of work and people involved though.

And thanks for the FB spec seat offer! We only had one person (that we know of) that really shouldn't have been in the seat she was in but there may have been more punters who would have been better off in a FB spec seat.

[Kagan]

Firstly the CRE idea is a great one. Takes rallying to the public (and I think shows them that we are not all physco hoons, whith a few exceptions of course).

I think the phot idea is a great one, however as stated it may be difficult to organise. If we could do it fairly cheaply though I think it would be a great idea.

Not sure if the one person you were refering to was in my car (if not then there was 2 at least) but she was a very, very tight squeeze (however was the best, and the most fun I had in the car all day).

I think the thing about you get what you get when it comes to cars is a good idea to enforce. I know that the corona is not the most appealing of rally cars in the world, however I waited for up to 20 minutes in the strap in bays before someone was put in my car a couple of times, to find out they had been waiting for hours, literally. From what I could see it was from punters saying, I want this car and I want that and everyone involved with the running of the event trying to please all the punters. (This is not critism of any sort either, everyone did a wonderful job out there and were trying to do the right thing by everyone but with everyone wanting to go with JS, Richard Lities sp? & the crazy ones wanting to go with spac in his fully sic rotary, I think it slowed the whole process down).

Block 12 is probably the most accessible to the public while still having all the aspects of a rally. Fast bits, twisty little corners even into a crest you can get airborne off. As well as this the roads were absolutly impecable given the fairly poor weather we had up to it.

I think all the changes are great and will definatly put my hand up again to help out.

[smee]

I've already sent some info to Tony in regards little bits, but on other things.

Why not charge up to $40 - $50 a ride. $15 last time was a little too cheap I feel. It costs you over $300 to go for a ride in a V8 or NASCAR and we are aware that ours is more exciting.

This increase could cover more niceties for people say a sausage sandwich or such and a bottle of water after. Approach a drink sponsor and see what they could do for you. Canberra milk may be interested.

Layer the ride prices.
Now you did mention some of the following, but to expand
With an increase in prices you get a hat CRE, BMSC, LCC or SKDAC, a shirt, a sticker as above, and/or a photo/video of your ride. These items could be purchased individually after your ride but they would come at an increased price. Tempt the consumer. Make them think they are getting something for nothing. The price increase may even be able to include a little kick back to the driver of say $5 a ride or a donation to each of the supporting clubs. It only has to be a token amount, but could provide enough for a tank of fuel if enough rides are done.

Improve the glitz… More seating, more shaded areas and the ability to get up close to the vehicles in a pit type area. Invite larger teams like Michael Thompson, Dennis Stevens, Neal Bates, Beb Fox, or others you don’t get an entry from. Rallying encompasses all levels and car types, so it would be good to get a varied amount of vehicles displayed. With good displays, people get distracted and aren’t complaining about wait times. Some people may have competition vehicles to sell. Offer a site to them. Invite Revolution or Barry Smith Motorsport out. Run some videos on a large screen. Not just the “quick as a wink” stuff but WRC/ARC/APC videos. From what I gather the display vehicle last time, was not there long.

Improved spectator access. See if you can grade a track or path. An increase in ride prices gives you the option to pretty it up more.

[Miss]

kagan, thanks for your feedback

Firstly, I'd like to clarify: we are ALL psycho hoons, but we have rally cars so the depth of hooness is much more socially acceptable.

The bit about people waiting for particular rides: your example is exactly what we want to avoid. No one we spoke to or heard of thought they got a bum steer because of the particular car they went in. We'll of course make it really clear when the punter buys the ticket that they will be strapped into the next available car and if they refuse they will forfeit their ticket, no exceptions.

And thanks for letting us know about the "tight squeeze", because anna and i were putting out spot-fires most of the time we couldn't get a good idea of how many large ar ses we had to cater for, and whether it neccesitated (is that a word?) us controlling it somehow for the safety factor.

About the photos: how cheap do you think is cheap? Say we send them 3-5 prints, we'll have to cover the photographer's costs (photo paper, printing costs, perhaps some small % for their equpiment), postage and handling, plus a profit to pass on to SouthCare... what would you pay? Or maybe more importantly, what wouldn't you pay?

[Tweety]

Originally Posted by Kagan

but she was a very, very tight squeeze (however was the best, and the most fun I had in the car all day).

I'm curious as to whether you feel at all embarrassed about this comment Kagan?

[Miss]

Smee,

Yes, the "Deluxe Pack" was something we benched last time (too hard basket) but it has made a comeback in our planning sessions and now you mention it we'll think some more about it. We had originally thought "standard ride", then "photo package" (ride + photos/video) but the deluxe pack, well, that's something worth working on. Again, if someone wanted a video that's really hard to organise and would maybe only be on offer to pre-purchased ticket holders.

Niceties for punters or drivers? Drivers we're already there, hoping to provide drinks at the very least and hopefully fuel like last time. We're locked in with Canberra Milk (deal with SouthCare) anyway... Punters we would avoid giving food to, that's why we invited the Lions club. Keep in mind that punters come to go for a ride in a rally car, not for a ride in a rally car and a free sausage.

We would not support any kick-backs to the clubs. This is a charity event for SouthCare and we know your intent is good (and we thank the clubs and members for their support and generosity) but every cent will go to SouthCare or the running costs of the day.

We have plans for a "trade fair". Details will be released as soon as we're locked in with Forestry (so we know what size space we've got). We will be inviting businesses that are already linked with rallying in some way but will not allow stallholders that would take the focus away from the intent of the day. We also need to bear in mind that the vast majority of people who come are not into motorsport to start with and are unlikely to suddenly decide they'll buy a car and so they'll need gloves and brakepads, so e.g. Revo and Barry Smith may well be wasting their time.

As far as displays are concerned we were disappointed at the lack of interest last year, and yes we know it wasn't exactly a fabulous display. Again, we have limitations on the amount of space we have (and the bodies we'd need to ensure a secure area). We had thought about offering people space if they had a car to sell but apart from that the thought is that if there's too much to distract them they won't be spectating, buying merch or going for rides (they can get up close to a car and even ask to see what's under the bonnet, they just have to pay the money to go for a ride). What's more, both Anna and I made the effort to ask people how long they'd been waiting and whether they were pyssed off about it. Some people waited THREE HOURS and were happy to do so - everyone was warned how long the wait was when they bought their ticket and as far as we know no one left because of it.

We had planned to have some video action running right up until the last weeks before CRE2004 but that's another generator, someone to stand there and watch no one flogs the telly and another distraction for people who we want spectating or going for rides. This is not to say we've abandoned the idea, but we're being realistic about whether it will end up having a positive effect. And no, it would not be WRC/ARC stuff anyway. We're promoting club level rallying. If they want to watch ARC stuff they can do that at home. What's more, if the video stuff goes ahead we'd like to give something back to the people who make it happen in our region - Russ Winks etc. When Network 10 starts covering the NSW State series we'll consider showing their footage.

Seating? Sure, where would we get seats from free of charge? And is that your hand up volunteering to bring them out, set them up and pack them away? Seating would be great but we have to think big picture...

[Spac]

What's wrong with pre-selling the tickets only? I reckon you could sell-out that way, without any real dramas.

You could also then offer different ride charges for different cars - (say) $25 for a run in a good AWD turbo, $20 for a run in a decent 2WD/slower AWD turbo, and $15 for a run in a slower 2WD or Ferret's car. Probably 'seed' the drivers/cars, then cut the field into thirds.
Seeing as there were nervous punters who wanted to get into the slower cars, I don't really reckon you'd have a drama filling all available rides.
You could book ride times and stuff too.
AND this would also mean you could match punters up with seat sizes, etc.

I'm not seeing any drawbacks, except for the scenario of someone's car not lasting the day
Total work would be the same, but would be spread out over a longer time, and you'd need less helpers on the day.

Photos are a great idea, I'm just not sure how you could make it happen. Ideally, the cars would go past a spectator point that's near the drop-off area so the photographer can take the photo(s) and they can be available to the punter while the adrenaline is still high.
You'd need a number of cameras and/or quick change memory cards, and some sort of way to get them viewable while the photographer is still taking photos.
Edit: Done digitally, the punter could view the photo before committing to the extra money, not unlike Dreamworld, etc.

And I reckon the punters would get more out of a slightly longer course, if that was realistically possible. Even doubling the length of the course would only add a tiny amount of time to how long it takes to get through the punters.

Sign me up!

[Bogan]

Originally Posted by Spac

What's wrong with pre-selling the tickets only? I reckon you could sell-out that way, without any real dramas.

We probably could but we don't want to. You lose the whole "Just turn up on the day and we'll strap you into a car" opportunity/aspect. Mind you if we run two stages we'll possibly have one dedicated to pre pay.

Originally Posted by Spac

Sign me up!

Sign yourself up when the regs. come out .

T.

[Kagan]

With the "tight squeeze" the look on Don's face while he was trying to belt her in was pricless. He was looking at me like "help" but unfortunatly the belt was as loose as it went etc, but he eventually closed the clasp and we were under way.

I think if it was for a couple of good quality photo's something around $20 I would think was reasonable. A video on the other hand you would need to charge more. I am just thinking if we charge $20 for a Ride, $20 for some photo's that's already $40 dollars. I wouldn't have thought people would pay to much more.

With the V8's NASCAR etc being $50 plus, thats fine. If the ride was with a professional driver in a works car then by all means charge more. Alas it is only us poor local club drivers on our little budgets that are driving and therefore we can't charge that sort of money. Yes everyone runs on different budgets, Smee yours would be greater than mine, JS probably greater again and then Karl probably the same or more again.

Unfortunatly (or more like fortunatly) even Karl wouldn't be forking out the same money the V8 teams would therefore we can't expect to charge the same amount or there abouts. It is just not in the same class.

[Spac]

Originally Posted by Bog

You lose the whole "Just turn up on the day and we'll strap you into a car" opportunity/aspect.

Is that such a bad thing? It make things a LOT easier for EVERYONE, including (especially?) the punters.
The 'bad weather argument' is a valid one, but you'd presumably re-schedule anyhow, and it wouldn't take much trickery to put a disclaimer on the ticket saying "If date x is called off, the alternative date will be y, tickets are not transferrable or refundable".

[Annatastic]

Pre-selling the whole thing isn't a bad idea, but might not work so well in practice.

We had a car out of action in the first hour last year ( Mark H and the Astra), so if we had pre-sold tickets, not necessarily a whole day's worth of tickets, but even a few, our whole well thought out and fool-proof system would be out of whack..

Thought we'd probably be safe with half the rides pre-sold?

[Kagan]

I'm curious as to whether you feel at all embarrassed about this comment Kagan?

We didn't stop the whole way around the stage if thats what you are getting at!!!!!!!!!

[Spac]

Didn't stop what Kagan?

Anna, half would be safe. I was wondering if you could have reserve spots or something, but then it gets complimicatered.