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26-09-2005, 03:16 AM
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#1 (permalink)
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Playin in the dust - somewhere
Join Date: 09-12-2001
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2006 NSW Season Documentation Available
The 2006 NSW Rally Organisers and Competition Conditions have been placed in the Documents / RAP / 2006 Series area of www.nswrally.com.
Printed copies of these and application forms for clubs/organisers to 'bid' for calendar dates will be distributed this week.
The following is also on the site but is included here for people to look at first ...
After much discussion, and bearing in mind various comments and submissions arising from the circulation of a discussion document earlier this year, the NSW Rally Advisory Panel has formulated a set of Competition and Organisers Conditions to be utilised for the 2006 Competition Year.
The panel has introduced a number of changes to the Competition & Organisers Conditions for the 2006 year. The major changes are: - Separation of State, Clubman & Novice Rounds.
The plan is to have 6 State Championship rounds, 6 Clubman rounds and 5 or 6 Novice rounds – each of which will be conducted as a separate event.
The Hyundai Excel & Gemini series competitors will continue to select the 6 rounds that make up their series and the NSW 2WD Championship will, once again, be conducted in parallel with the State Championship.
- Single unified Clubman series
- Lowering of maximum entry fees
- General requirement for single service park location whenever possible – exceptions permitted on application to the panel
- Specification of both minimum and maximum event competitive distances
- Compulsory FIV provision at State Championship level and strong recommendation at other levels. Bids for the provision of services to be solicited from suitable providers for NSW / ACT.
- Standardised penalties for penalising late time and late starting – different at various levels – eg more severe at State level than Clubman
- Reservation of standard signage space on State Championship entrant vehicles to allow for series sponsor signage.
- Limitation of Novice series to two wheel drive vehicles.
- Enforcement of CAMS Rally Spectator Control Procedures documented requirements.
In looking at the conditions the panel has attempted to: - keep the overall cost of competing down as much as possible by:
- lowering entry fees;
- striking a balance between the number of rounds in a series and the number of events a crew ‘chasing’ a title need to complete.
- minimising service crew travel requirements during an event (also allows ‘pooling’ of resources);
- limiting maximum competitive length to reduce tyre & fuel requirements; and
- preparing for the implementation of some form of series sponsorship.
- provide an environment where good drivers, co-drivers, teams and vehicles can be appropriately recognised at the level of event they are registered to compete in. Currently the combined nature of most events means that a Clubman competitor has little or no chance of gaining a significant outright position, and the associated sense of achievement, as there are so many other, faster, vehicles – who are doing the State Championship component of the event.
Separating the rounds will, obviously, allow Clubman competitors to earn outright places at Clubman Events, giving them some level of recognition for their efforts.
- start promoting increased awareness and management of safety related issues through the adoption and enforcement of agreed minimum standards appropriate to the level of competition.
- unify the Clubman series so that the reliance on a single event to determine the series overall Champions is removed.
The panel recognises the impacts on organisers that these changes will involve but believe that it is possible to provide a quality event within the conditions – and that the changes will, over the next 1 or 2 years, make the various series more attractive to ‘new’ entrants. This, coupled with promotion / marketing efforts and the advent of sponsorship for the Excel series and, we hope, the NSW State Championship, should increase the awareness of our sport and help keep entry barriers as low as possible.
The process for allocating dates for events has also been changed in an attempt to provide a degree of certainty about event dates and scheduling to avoid, as much as possible, clashes with other major events.
The panel has allocated eight dates on which the 6 State events may be run and eight for the 6 Clubman rounds – the ‘unallocated’ dates will be kept reserved in case one or more events need to be rescheduled. Organisers are being asked to ‘bid’ on the level and timing of events they would like to run.
The initial selection of dates are: - NSW State Championship (8 allocated, 6 to be used, 2 retained in case a reschedule is required)
18th March, 6th May, 10th/11th June (Long weekend so expect to see Bega running here – including the new interstate Excel challenge between NSW & Victoria), 1st July, 5th August, 9th September, 14th October & 25th November.
- NSW Clubman Series (8 allocated, 6 to be used, 2 retained in case a reschedule is required)
4th March, 8th April, 20th May, 24th June, 22nd July, 19th August, 23rd September & 4th November.
The dates selected are based on ‘guesses’ as to when events such as Globalstar ARC rounds and the Rally of Canberra will be scheduled as these calendars have not been finalised as yet – so some changes may be necessary once these are fixed in place.
Once the ‘bids’ are received a meeting will be organised of the NSW RAP and the various organisers to finalise the calendar – as outlined in the organisers conditions.
The panel is looking forward to our sport enjoying a successful year in 2006 and the years ahead – which we are confident it will with your support.
___________________________________
I am now putting on my duly approved flameproof overalls and going to sleep ... to await comments over the next few days ...
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26-09-2005, 10:29 AM
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#2 (permalink)
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Gigada Gigada
Join Date: 13-12-2001
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Sounds good. I like the idea of separate events (like the good old days), it gives the lower levels the opportunity of an outright placing, and a greater sense of achievement. However, for it to work successfully I think the cost cutting measures are important, otherwise I could see the top level suffering in terms of entries. As unlike the good old days, costs are so much more exorbitant these days, in particular entry fees. My only other concern is whether there are enough directors willing to run all these events (particularly with all this bull**** CAMS accreditation now), and the availability of forest to run them (as that also seems to be forever shrinking).
It certainly gives those at the lower levels with money to burn, a ****load of events to run, best way to improve one’s skills.
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26-09-2005, 10:38 AM
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#3 (permalink)
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Zoom zoom zoom...
Join Date: 28-04-2003
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I like it, the only comment I would offer is:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Ian Bigg
- Standardised penalties for penalising late time and late starting – different at various levels – eg more severe at State level than Clubman
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Why not just make it standard across the board? A dust gap is a dust gap and if w@nkers* want to play that game at Clubman level just because they can then they will. If it's genuine lateness then 10 seconds per minute isn't going to break the bank.
Leave the penalty there for all would be my pick.
T.
*I've made my feelings clear on deliberate dust gapping several times now. If you really want me to repeat myself at least do a search first.
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26-09-2005, 11:41 AM
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#4 (permalink)
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Long haired hippy
Join Date: 03-12-2001
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Boges I see your point... but...
It seems the further up the field you go the more likely it is that some other c-hunt up the front is dust gapping proper. It's a semi legal way to get an advantage and makes a difference to outright placings (if it comes to it). Bear in mind that often these dust gapping scumbags have oodles of service crew and loads of dosh to extend their servicing abilities and therefore reduce the time needed for servicing (of sorts, do ya get me???) so their lateness to control is really often only about dust gapping.
Down the field, particularly with novices and clubmans out for a jolly good time, dust gapping isn't so much the issue because more often than not their lateness to control is brought on by needing another minute or two in service in order for them to continue in the event at all. Sure, dust gapping still happens but I think you'll find with less pressure up the pointy end of clubman (cause they're not going all out against the state cars, yes that's right it's all the car) there may well be less dust gapping.
I know your circumstances and thoughts on the matter but from a "series" POV I think the RAP has recognised the demands that state v. clubman v. novice entrants are under and have done an excellent job in developing the series conditions.
These conditions are definitely all about the competitor, whereas previous series regs seem to have done away with what the competitors want/need and thought more about the organisers.
Well done!!!!
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26-09-2005, 12:43 PM
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#5 (permalink)
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Alpine Choker '09
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Comments and discussion regarding dust-gapping stemming from this topic is in a seperate thread over here:
http://www.bmsc.com.au/forums/showthread.php?t=6563
We now return you to your normal programming.
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Last edited by fro; 26-09-2005 at 12:52 PM.
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29-09-2005, 03:22 PM
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#6 (permalink)
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Need EFI? Get Megasquirt.
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I see that the RAP has decided, again, on maximum entry fees for each particular event category. This will naturally lead to organisers charging the maximum amount with no motivation to charge less. I suggest, once the idea of single status events is bedded down, that the proposed entry fee should be a key part of the bid for a status event and that the fee should be used as a criterion for selection of the event by the RAP. Only in that way will competition force the lowest entry fees.
I don't see any mention of the criteria used by the RAP to select events. Why not mandate that organisers conduct a satisfaction survey of competitors, the results of which will be used to inform the RAP in giving championship status to the event in future.
The panel has also chosen to include the following in the conditions:
Quote:
2.5 SOS Network Provision
Organisers of all events, and in particular NSW State Championship events, are strongly encouraged to provide some form of communications network on stages longer than 15km that will allow the reporting of incidents at intervals of approximately 5km. Such a network may also be utilised as part of the positive tracking design if desired.
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If the panel has used the CAMS risk management procedures, as is required, then why is it that stages shorter than 15km should not have SOS points every 5km? Is there something about shorter stages that means there won't be an incident in the first 5km?
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Marc Kelly
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29-09-2005, 03:24 PM
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#7 (permalink)
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Need EFI? Get Megasquirt.
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I also see that the conditions mandate that CAMS has to receive paperwork 4 weeks before the opening date for entries. This is a more relaxed requirement than that in the NSW organisers manual. Why should a FNS have to have paperwork in at least 8 weeks before the event when, conceivably, a NSW championship event could put it in much later?
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Marc Kelly
Now with MS'd JD Camira rally car. Don't laugh.
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29-09-2005, 03:27 PM
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#8 (permalink)
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Need EFI? Get Megasquirt.
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Also, why do the competition conditions allow drivers ineligible to score points in a clubman event to get an outright position, while the organisers conditions don't allow this.
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Marc Kelly
Now with MS'd JD Camira rally car. Don't laugh.
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29-09-2005, 04:05 PM
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#9 (permalink)
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Crash Test Dummi
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tortfeaser
I also see that the conditions mandate that CAMS has to receive paperwork 4 weeks before the opening date for entries. This is a more relaxed requirement than that in the NSW organisers manual. Why should a FNS have to have paperwork in at least 8 weeks before the event when, conceivably, a NSW championship event could put it in much later?
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We generally allow 4 weeks for entries to roll in, 3 at least.
Therefore you still have your 8 weeks (8.5) if you close your entires on the monday prior to the event starting for your paper work to be in.
Also, different forest areas charge different amounts. Therefore pricing will differ for various events in the same state.
Some events even factor in dinner and drinks into the entry fee or adding an FIV to the event. Would you knock an event back if it was 20 - 30 more if both crew were entitled to this.
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29-09-2005, 04:19 PM
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#10 (permalink)
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Need EFI? Get Megasquirt.
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I'd use value as a criteria. If you got extra stuff for the same price as another event, then that ups the value points.
I don't care what it costs the organiser to put the event on, I want to reduce the costs for competitors to compete. I know how much it costs to run an event and know how much they could be run for.
Why is a 150km state champ event allowed to bill $495, while a 140km clubman is $345? That's a pricey 10km right there. Now lets see how many state rounds are <$495 next year when clearly the panel thinks an event of comparable length should cost 30 per cent less.
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Marc Kelly
Now with MS'd JD Camira rally car. Don't laugh.
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29-09-2005, 04:26 PM
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#11 (permalink)
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Long haired hippy
Join Date: 03-12-2001
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tortfeaser
I see that the RAP has decided, again, on maximum entry fees for each particular event category. This will naturally lead to organisers charging the maximum amount with no motivation to charge less.
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I disagree. I think it will cause SOME organisers to charge the maximum allowable (which has been reduced), however this is no different to what currently happens with these organisers. Not every club is out to make as much money as possible from an event. Some clubs do it to pay their CAMS affiliation fees and no more. All in all, those max entry fees are lower now. That's better than it was this year.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by tortfeaser
I don't see any mention of the criteria used by the RAP to select events. Why not mandate that organisers conduct a satisfaction survey of competitors, the results of which will be used to inform the RAP in giving championship status to the event in future.
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Hey, I've done my fair share of stats and forms design. I've got a few things to ask:
What was your favourite part of the event?
How much did you like the service park?
How friendly were the controllies (please circle) incredibly/very/usual/average
I see what you're suggesting and I think it's great, however there is a lot of work involved in this as you'd know. Personally, I'd become very quickly disinterested in organising an event if I had to conduct something like this during/afterwards. There's enough things to do. I think the RAP is well aware of who likes what events and why, which events have a poor turnup and why etc is a good enough methodology for the moment. Only this way it's a bit more share the love...
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29-09-2005, 05:07 PM
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#12 (permalink)
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Crash Test Dummi
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tortfeaser
Why is a 150km state champ event allowed to bill $495, while a 140km clubman is $345? That's a pricey 10km right there. Now lets see how many state rounds are <$495 next year when clearly the panel thinks an event of comparable length should cost 30 per cent less.
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If all the WRC crews were members of the BMSC, then we could (in theory) run a WRC event as a closed to club.
I think insurance, the requirements imposed on each level of event and the sliding scale that CAMS has developed has a lot to answer for in regards to event pricing.
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29-09-2005, 05:08 PM
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#13 (permalink)
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Need EFI? Get Megasquirt.
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Survey design is a PITA, I agree. However, we're not limited to paper forms. Could even do it at the final control, or on the last transport.
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Marc Kelly
Now with MS'd JD Camira rally car. Don't laugh.
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29-09-2005, 05:13 PM
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#14 (permalink)
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Need EFI? Get Megasquirt.
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As for permit fees, Smee's right - the State fee is $75 more than the multiclub fee. But aren't clubman championship events paying that higher fee? If not, then I take back 50 per cent of what I said. The Starmart regs have it as a state championship event, and so would pay the higher fee.
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Marc Kelly
Now with MS'd JD Camira rally car. Don't laugh.
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29-09-2005, 05:33 PM
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#15 (permalink)
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Speechless.
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There's a subtlety in the wording of "State Championship" versus "State Series".
I wasn't aware of it until very recently, and I'm sure the two are confused and consequently mis-used so often that it just perpetuates the confusion.
WRT the survey idea, this has been discussed a fair bit already. Basically speaking, the NSW RAP does want to implent something VERY similar to what you've suggested, but haven't gotten the collective poop in the pile yet (it's can be done anytime before the first event in 2006, whereas the Comp Conditions needed to be done yesterday).
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