Recce / Road car

[Brenton Kaitler]

Hi guys,
Apologies if this is an out of place question, but I'm in the market for a road / recce car. Looking post-2000, manual, and around 1.8 - 2l. I'm thinking of a Focus hatch.... Has anyone had any experience with them - are they stong enough to use a daily drive and recce car without too much wear and tear on it? (Obviously going to put underbody protection on). What do other people do for recce cars? At the moment we've either used the rally car or a hire car.
Oh, and no jokes about going for a RWD Focus...I can see someone thinking that up as a reply!!!
Thanks in advance
Brenton

[Glen]

I can't comment on what a Focus is like to drive as a recce car.

As a general rule I don't like using rally cars for recce. The suspension is way too stiff and makes it a real challenge for the co-driver to write legible notes. I could see the point of using a rally car when the speed limits weren't enforced on recce and the third run over the stage used to be at near rally speeds. With enforced speed limits ranging from 50 km/hr to 80 km/hr for recce, there's not much point in using a rally car.

We use a standard Mitsubishi Outlander. The only modifications are a maplight, tripmeter, video camera and 2 spare tyres. It's a great recce car as it is not too big or too high, has enough ground clearance that you won't hole a sump, and it's air-conditioned. It's full-time 4WD which can be handy if it rains and gets slippery. And yes it's an auto too.

The good thing about a car like this is that you can use to ferry people around on the event too, which is another draw back of a rally car.

[fro]

You've been using rentals for recce before? What was the best one that you have used? Surely that woudl be a good starting point?

I would have thought a Corolla would have won out over a Focus, for both reliability and ease of parts/service/etc should you have a problem with it mid-recce.

What about the Soft-Roader options? Outlander/Rav4/Xtrail/Forester would all have to be reasonable recce cars, and provide the advantages Glen has outlined above.

[Daz555]

Hiya Brenton, Having recce'd in everything from a Toyota Echo through to a Nissan Patrol, I'd have no hessitation recommending you look into the best "Soft Roader" that your budget can accomodate.. Both Glen and fro are on the right track... Some of them at a pinch could also probably tow the Mirage... Being the Subaru man I'd say go for an Automatic Forester...

[Brenton Kaitler]

As for past cars, let me say a BA Falcon in Canberra was..interesting! Only prob I find with a car of a totally different style to the rally car is that it is difficult to tell what the road is actually like. Eg, a soft-roader gives a different feeling to a small car. Therefore I find I give the corner the wrong sort of grading (which I did in Canberra, graded corners faster than they should've been). Hence the reason I am going for a smaller car.

Hadn't thought of a Corolla...

Oh, and price and fuel economy would force out a Rav4 or similar also...

Thanks for the feedback so far-really appreciate it!

[DaveTrees]

Originally Posted by Daz555

Being the Subaru man I'd say go for an Automatic Forester...

yep, the Forester is a good thing - I used my previous company car quite a few times for recce & it was ideal. We just used to throw a set of old rally tyres on it on spare rims (basically for puncture resistance compared to the standard tyres).

We could always use the Volvo for the Akademos (indestructible, & has tripmeter & sumpguard )

Dave

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Brenton_Mivec

Only prob I find with a car of a totally different style to the rally car is that it is difficult to tell what the road is actually like. Eg, a soft-roader gives a different feeling to a small car. Therefore I find I give the corner the wrong sort of grading (which I did in Canberra, graded corners faster than they should've been). Hence the reason I am going for a smaller car.

I wouldn't stress about that too much. The Outlander is obviously a bit different to an Evo 9 but it honestly isn't a problem. It's probably more important that you use the same car (whatever it may be) for consistency. Using a "pace-note" wheel will take the subjectivity out of it too.

On the subject of tyres, the ARC forbids the use of rally tyres for recce. I don't know if this applies to state events like the SA championship. The Outlander has Pirelli light truck tyres on it. It has a normal road car tread pattern but the case is heavily reinforced. We have only ever had a single puncture in 12 months of recce when we staked a sidewall.

[Matt Sosi]

In Perth for TRA, we used a Hyundai Sante Fe which was perfect. It had only 10km on the clock when we picked it up. It was different compared to the actual rally, however, if you got the pace note wheel, that helps.

Glen is correct in that writing recce notes in a rally car is a pain. Your notes become a mess and become ineligible. Especially, when you go back through your notes, trying to work out what things were becomes an interesting task in itself.

My own opinion and it will be interesting what Glen and others think and that is personally I do not use a tripmeter when I pacenote. For all ARC's and international's, all changes in direction are arrowed with junction numbers underneath them. This helps both driver and co-driver alot.

Matt

[Glen]

Originally Posted by Matt Sosi

My own opinion and it will be interesting what Glen and others think and that is personally I do not use a tripmeter when I pacenote. For all ARC's and international's, all changes in direction are arrowed with junction numbers underneath them. This helps both driver and co-driver alot.

Matt

I mainly use the trip meter for navigating to the stage starts when you find yourself on a transport in the road book. I reset the trip meter at the start of each stage when we are pace noting, but it is generally only used if there has been some confusion with the arrows so you can check your position in the route chart.

It's not a necessity but it makes life easier when you can use it.

[fro]

Originally Posted by Matt Sosi

Your notes become a mess and become ineligible.

Ineligible is bad. Perhaps you mean illegible?

[scooter]

Over the last few years we've used either a:

- Falcon/Hilux ute - which needs a sumpguard and something other than light truck tyres for traction, and an LSD. Good because it's the same to drive as my rally car - same steering ratios, same size car etc same visual perspective from driver's seat.

- Rally car - a good option in my opinion, but perhaps only for a short event - the noise and rough ride at slow speeds get to you after a while.

- Nissan X-Trail hire car. They will allow you to drive it on dirt roads, good ground clearance, air-con CD player for long transports, quiet, economical, AWD for when it gets wet. Easily my first choice, especially if recce's going to take all day.

- Nissan Pulsar hire car - don't bother.

[global]

We use the xtrail. For a couple of different reasons.

1) It can tow 2000kg, which is the car packed with spares, Xtrail packed up and still fit 1 - 2 passengers - So it saves on vehicles going to and from events and with the service park layouts at the bigger events the Xtrail is good for crew transport.

2) For recce its fine, ours has done about 6 - 7 recces over the last few years and has proven to be great.

3) There are plenty of hire Xtrails around which is very handy for something or other and I am not 100% sure on how that could help. However people seem to like hire cars as it helps them get spare parts, I am assuming they mean collect spare parts from the shop.

The downside

1) Get one with mag wheels as the steel wheels are very soft

2) Put a bash tray on it as sumps and gearboxes need the protection

3) It has to be one of the most horrible interiors ever made