Doom and Gloom and whinging

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by bob moore

Do you understand what an investment is?

Read the words. Read what they actually say, rather than what you think they said.

Yes actually, I do understand. I dont think your seeing my point clearly enough however.

So why do spectactors come out to watch or why do they watch on the boob tube? Because they want to invest time and money for enjoyment. Now maybe you dont think that's investing in any way but I do, time is an investment, it's also called opportunity cost. Some fans have a geat deal of time invested in the sport to wave on their favorite players. They play good money to watch and they are part of what supports the sport, not just in the possibility of becoming a competitor or offical, but also in wandering down to the local Revo Racegear and buying a T-Shirt or other mechandice.

Your basiclly defining spectactors and other fans out of having an investment in the sport. That's short sighted because fans DO put their time and money into the sport, even if it is a round about way and it's more than what I have touched on - and to keep on banging on about the transfer from fan to competitor, they can and do become more active in the sport.

Now rallying too has an obligation to the spectactors as well as a result. We owe them something as without them we will not have as big a pool of people to get to actually become more involved, be that competitors or officals. We wont have proof a sponsor's money is worthwhile to put on the side of the car.

Hey hang on, now we got some more investment here. More cause and effect.

The investment thence works both ways. They invest their time and money in us for the return of enjoyment, we invest in them as part of the future.

So if your going to think about the future, you better take note of what spectactors think and say and not just us competitors. You might think the pendulum's gone too far but right now in Australia spectactor numbers are so low you could get them all, fit them out with stilts and a top hat and they could still walk under a dunny door.

Somehow that tells me if we been focusing on spectactors too much then someone has REALLY screwed up. I'd love to see what happens if they ignored spectactors completely then I dont think we could have alienated spectactors and fans any more if we did it deliberatly.

[MarkH]

Originally Posted by erk

As for Super Rally rules, I don't dispute that TV (mostly) and spectators at the rally had something to do with it. However there are benefits for the teams/competitors as well. Who wants to do a 2 day rally, have a fault or a crash or something early on day 1 and that's it, you go back on your trailer and go home?

We drove to Bega from Melbourne a few years back, broke the suspension on the first stage, drove to Wangaratta, ignition wire broke on first stage start. Both were instances of of our trying to get away with too much life on components because budget was tight. Thats what rallying is all about, when it all goes good, terrific, if it all turns purple, better luck next time. Circuit racing is getting it fixed so you can go out again for the next race that day. I like rallying better.

[Ausrally]

Guys from our work came to watch the car we sponsor at ROQ.

2 tanks fuel 150
2 rooms 160
Food 200
entry to spectator points 120
other 45

Your right Bob no investment here.......

And that swhy we have a responsibiltiy as a sport to deliver.

[MikeW]

I official at RoC most years as a key official, so what does it cost me:
- 6 days of annual leave (Monday off to recover)
- Many weekends in Canberra in the months before the event
- $100's of dollars of fuel (to/from Canberra)
- Cost of food to eat in the forest
- Wear on the vehicle

That's once a year though but take a club event, it's many hours in the forest, the rallies aren't in the city so there is the travel time to/from the event, maybe overnight accomodation as well, then there is the fuel plus the food supplies while your out there.

More investment in the sport from people not competing..........

[raybak]

Mike, the Monday off to recover is a usual thing after ROC, the after party seems to get me that way too.

Ray

[bob moore]

gone!

[Paul]

GOB there has and is some people within the sport whom start out as spectators at some stage and then thought how does one get involved in this sport.

It maybe small but it does exist!

I can name quite a few who have spectated at ROC or a clubbie then got involved in either competition or officiating.

[Barney]

I have nothing to add with regards to the subject matter, but bare with me: Forums bring out whingeing. They are 2 dimensional communiques which normally we attend to whilst checking emails and have a little bit of down time up our sleeve. Normally a person is by themselves when they reply to a forum topic, and this causes a natural feeling of melancholy when thinking about the big picture and typing it all in. Scope the net and find forums in any organisation that aren't 70% negative response or heated discussion. Blogs are different, they are people who choose to relay their entire day on the net and other tune in and compare. Dull to me, fun to some. Forums are a direct question and response format and truly they are mostly complaint based.

I am guilty as are many others of whingeing on forums, yet in reality I consider every day I wake up breathing to be a good day. All of my mates, rallynuts or not, are the same attitude, yet we all have a spit on forums now and again. In our history we always had a spit over something, it was short lived and easily fixed (usually) and generally during a meeting at the clubrooms of a Tuesday night. Whingeing is just more global now and permanent, thanks to the net, and the gregarious nature of the human network isn't the same as a result.

Mind you, the increased cyber network of forum users allows greater exchange of information and permists sale and purchase over a greater market. The Ipswich West Moreton Clubrooms used to have about 30 people drinking beers and talking krap 12 years ago, now the forums are nationwide, and the same krap funnily enough.

Jeez, did I just whinge about forums? Couldn't have....

[TX3 Rally]

Originally Posted by erk

Just out of interest, when (ballpark figure will be fine) was the last WRC/ARC event with a major night component based in a forest as opposed to a Super Special?

Not actually in a forest, but if I had to hazard a guess I would say that the last time decent night stages were run in the WRC would br over Col de Turini at Monte Carlo. Can't even remember when the WRC last did night forest stages. Should be brought back though - there's nothing like night rallying.

[raybak]

I started out as a spectator many years ago, now I'm quite involved with the sport. We need to do more to get new blood into the sport.

If it means that we have to give free entry to speccy points, this is what we have to do. Look at how many people were spectating at Bega.

I wreckon there were more people spectating at the MG Motorkhana the other weekend than at Rally of Queensland.

Ray

[DENOOL]

Hi

[MarkH]

Originally Posted by Barney

market. The Ipswich West Moreton Clubrooms used to have about 30 people drinking beers and talking krap 12 years ago, now the forums are nationwide, and the same krap funnily enough.

And I''l bet that there are't 30 people at the meetings any more

While we're at it, can I point out that the electronic age has killed club meetings.
Don't have to come to club meetings to whinge and sprout the proverbial, can do it all on the net.

[rallyfiend]

Originally Posted by TX3 Rally

Not actually in a forest, but if I had to hazard a guess I would say that the last time decent night stages were run in the WRC would br over Col de Turini at Monte Carlo. Can't even remember when the WRC last did night forest stages. Should be brought back though - there's nothing like night rallying.

At ARc/WRC level they may be hard to televise - or at least properly televise, hence possibly the move to Super Special Stages.

[MichaelF]

Personally I thought the whole Kowen spectator point at this year's RoC was very well done. From the bridge and other man made stuff to the water splash, fast and slow corners in the forest and a couple of "straights".

With a bit more work it could be made into a world class one stop spectator shop. But alas that won't be happening for a WRC round and maybe not for another RoC.

[TX3 Rally]

I dunno wot you guys are all complaining about - for years you have been complaining that the ARC is too expensive, so Gaz has cut the costs for next year by making it a 4 round championship - WA, QLD, SA and Melbourne. Imagine how much money everyone will save by only having to do 4 rounds. You say that he doesn't listen to the grass roots - well obviously he has been listening to the privateer entrants group as he has adopted their idea of a 4 round championship. And he has listened to everyone's concerns about not enough manufacturer participation and responded by driving away the blue team who had far too much money to spend, so now that the rest of the manufacturers can afford to win we will start to see more of them come into the sport in the next couple of years.

Dunno what you are all complaining about really - Gaz is a genius