Mark's Civic build

[Warps]

Sorry to inform you but that dash top is illegal. Lucky for you I'm happy to swap it for a stock (legal) one. Just send yours up to me and I'll take care of it for you

The B16a should be good for 8800RPM. Anything over that and Honda engines start going bang, but apparently they'll live under that all day. Does yours have a cutout at 8200, or is it a self imposed limit? Mine cuts out at 8800, but it has an aftermarket chip of some sort (the ECU has EG6 Skunk 2 written on it in purple paint pen - which is one step above red crayon in the official international labelling standards)

Don't get too hung up about engine mods, weight reduction etc. I had mine out for its first outing in the gravel a couple of weeks ago, and managed 11th outright (field of 42) and even beat an Evo 10, a handful of late WRX's, 2 Hyabusa powered offroad buggies and everything 2WD over 2L . Best of all it was an absolute hoot, and it was full of sideways.

Oh, keep an eye on the oil level too. The V-Tec yo! does some funky stuff if the hydraulic oil pressure starts to drop away due to oil surge

[Mark]

Originally Posted by Warps

Sorry to inform you but that dash top is illegal. Lucky for you I'm happy to swap it for a stock (legal) one. Just send yours up to me and I'll take care of it for you

The B16a should be good for 8800RPM. Anything over that and Honda engines start going bang, but apparently they'll live under that all day. Does yours have a cutout at 8200, or is it a self imposed limit? Mine cuts out at 8800, but it has an aftermarket chip of some sort (the ECU has EG6 Skunk 2 written on it in purple paint pen - which is one step above red crayon in the official international labelling standards)

Don't get too hung up about engine mods, weight reduction etc. I had mine out for its first outing in the gravel a couple of weeks ago, and managed 11th outright (field of 42) and even beat an Evo 10, a handful of late WRX's, 2 Hyabusa powered offroad buggies and everything 2WD over 2L . Best of all it was an absolute hoot, and it was full of sideways.

Oh, keep an eye on the oil level too. The V-Tec yo! does some funky stuff if the hydraulic oil pressure starts to drop away due to oil surge

Thanks Warps. I've done 'rally' before. I did two back in 2009 which went okay though in an old car. You did well in your first event in Damo's old car. Did you use the 'scandanavian flick' that I read about?

Are you serious about the dashboard? Or are you taking the p!ss-I can never tell with the internets.

I think it is a standard ECU so limited to 8,200rpm. If you're saying the engines go bang after 8K why are you revving to 8,800rpm. My older brother says that engines are exponentially more unreliable with the cube of the engine revs. So, the extra 600rpm you're using sounds dangerous...

I'd better get back to it.

Thanks.

Mark

[Rallyray]

I love this place sometimes...

[Warps]

Nah I was just takng the piss with the dash top - basically my way of saying it looks good and I wouldn't mind having one on my car.

The B16a's are good for 8,800 RPM, which is what mine is set to. Once you start getting up to 9,000, that's when they start to have troubles. Mine is still exactly the way I bought it, so I haven;t actually done any of the setup in it.

Generally the wear increases as you increase revs, but over certain speeds they start failing catastrophically. Yes, an engine revved to 8,800 every day will wear out faster than one that only revs to 8,000, but it is certainly not an exponential relationship in the case of these engines. You will do a lot more damage by not following proper warm up procedure, or not following good maintenance practices.

Mind you, I'm certainly not a Honda expert - this is just what I've picked up from talking to people who race and build them.

I didn't have a need to scando flick into corners - the tail came out nicely under trail braking. In fact, I got way too sideways a few times, and managed to get it straight with lots of throttle applied (unlike my previous RWD cars which had me dancing on the throttle to try and balance the oversteer). I found a similar experience at a track day at Lakeside a few months ago. The only FWD tendency the car exhibited was a slight tightening of line when doing a gear change in the middle of a 3rd gear uphill corner. Apart from that it was beautifully balanced.

[Mark]

Good stuff!

[LP555]

Originally Posted by smee

Do you have the belts passed through the retaining clips correctly.

3 passes.

Not being adversarial here, but where is this requirement specified? Like Matt, I was unaware it was a requirement.

[Warps]

http://www.schrothracing.com/sdocs/2...structions.pdf
Page 25 onward shows the manufacturer's recommendations for Schroth belts. This is the method I used.

[LP555]

That's a recommendation by a manufacturer. What I am asking is where is it specified as a requirement? Schedule I doesn't seem to have anything and neither does Schedule R. I've had Barry Habgood look over my car quite thoroughly a three different ARC scrutineering sessions and never once got pinged on harnesses.

Rather than continue to hijack Mark's thread (because he needs all the help he can get being such a newbie to building rally cars ), I'll start a new thread here: Harness securing requirements

[Mark]

Thanks Langdon! Get 'orf my land... oh hang on....

Err, I failed on a few small things (forgot to get it weighed, hadn't connected up the middle taillight, and they didn't like the release latch for the bonnet, cable tied to the roll cage - took them 5 minutes to open the bonnet). I got away with a brake bias valve in there but have to secure it in the current threaded position so that lockwire and a drill will fix that in no time.

I got nailed on the hydraulic handbrake. I thought they were acceptable but they're not. So I'll pull that out tomorrow, bridge the brake lines near it, put the mechanical in and do the dance all over again.

Got it weighed on the way home. 1080kg with a full tank of fuel and 8kgs of tools in the boot, No sump guard, no helmets. Scales work in 20kg increments so who knows which way...but I'm assuming its a porker.

Mark

[Swill]

Originally Posted by Mark

I got nailed on the hydraulic handbrake. I thought they were acceptable but they're not. So I'll pull that out tomorrow, bridge the brake lines near it, put the mechanical in and do the dance all over again.

Ah that old chessnut. They give you a reason?

[Warps]

Did you not have a cable handbrake hooked up, or did they just not like the fact that there was a hyd handbrake in there as well? I would expect that a hyd only handbrake is not acceptable because even if you could ratchet it on, there's nothing to prevent hydraulic fluid bleeding off over time.

As I said, it may be a porker, but don't worry too much about that. You will still have a smile on your dial when you get to drive it in anger.

Do you have to have a cable release for the bonnet? At the moment, mine only has the bonnet pins (plus a secondary method). Not secure against unauthorised access, but not illegal AFAIK. I have a pair of Aerocatch pins in the shed to be fitted - should keep the DOT guys a bit happier when I finally go for a RWC and rego.

[CoffinRX2]

Originally Posted by Mark

Thanks Langdon! Get 'orf my land... oh hang on....

Err, I failed on a few small things (forgot to get it weighed, hadn't connected up the middle taillight, and they didn't like the release latch for the bonnet, cable tied to the roll cage - took them 5 minutes to open the bonnet). I got away with a brake bias valve in there but have to secure it in the current threaded position so that lockwire and a drill will fix that in no time.

I got nailed on the hydraulic handbrake. I thought they were acceptable but they're not. So I'll pull that out tomorrow, bridge the brake lines near it, put the mechanical in and do the dance all over again.

Got it weighed on the way home. 1080kg with a full tank of fuel and 8kgs of tools in the boot, No sump guard, no helmets. Scales work in 20kg increments so who knows which way...but I'm assuming its a porker.

Mark

I saw you there this morning Mark, when the guy was outside with you going through what you failed on, ... waited around a few mins but he didnt seem to want to shut up, so I went inside and got my UVP for my rally car

Looks good though

[Damo]

Originally Posted by Warps

The B16a's are good for 8,800 RPM, which is what mine is set to. Once you start getting up to 9,000, that's when they start to have troubles. Mine is still exactly the way I bought it, so I haven;t actually done any of the setup in it.

Yours has been 'chipped' (Spoon, from memory? Russell may be able to confirm) which might explain for the higher rev limit than Mark has.

Originally Posted by Warps

the tail came out nicely under trail braking

I found lots of that happening too - caused largely by the 3 deg of toe out on the LHR (!!) which was still that way when I sold it. I think the god-awful rear trailing arm these Civics used is bent, you will notice the other side is brand new....

[Warps]

Originally Posted by Damo

Yours has been 'chipped' (Spoon, from memory? Russell may be able to confirm) which might explain for the higher rev limit than Mark has.

Yeh as per my earlier post, I found the words Skunk2 written onto the ECU case - whether that means anything (Skunk2 is apparently one brand of aftermarket go faster gear for Hoondas)

I found lots of that happening too - caused largely by the 3 deg of toe out on the LHR (!!) which was still that way when I sold it. I think the god-awful rear trailing arm these Civics used is bent, you will notice the other side is brand new....

You mean it's NOT meant to do that? I was planning on taking it to my wheel alignment man, but if he's going to "fix" the oversteery nature, then I might have to have a rethink

[Mathew Boorman]

Originally Posted by LP555

Not being adversarial here, but where is this requirement specified? Like Matt, I was unaware it was a requirement.

Its not in the book, but its in the belts manual. I remember reading it but not doing it as I could not make it fit through.

I was told it was found to have contributed to injury(?) in a big accident back a few years ago, as they slipped under load. That makes sense as with only 2 thicknesses there is no tight bend that will tighten onto itself.


Mark, I've still got your camera mount that you will need! See totally on topic. :-)