2008 BRM Safari Rally

[DamienS]

and some more video of speccy point one here. Only short.

http://www.bmsc.com.au/forums/video/...tml#post177997

Cheers
Damien

[fly]

I took some shots at My road closure SS3 East-West, unfortunately not everyone though.(camera issues )
If I can work out how to put them up I will.

I got cars 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 11, 13, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 29, 30, 32, 33, 34, 37, 38, 41, 42.

They're not the best quality, but it's a cheap camera & the operator is dodgy.

[heyehy]

Some awesome footage from SS1 first road closure by Girlie, just found on u tuben

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmZ5jVG6_CE

airing some dirty laundry some aweome examples of how to do the corner, and how not to do it

[heyehy]

and car 39 being very quickly caught by the car behind (not me )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1SSFNx4e-0

[Jme]

Originally Posted by Kaptainballistik

Cant agree on that.....

I'll drive... you read the book and see how you go. If you are moving slower it's easier cause you have more time to get the information out, but you get in the seat with say a Darby or Roberts etc from up North who with respect are truly "ballistik" to the tune of maybe 10 secs a K faster and it all gets too bloody hard.

Canberra highlights the problem cause the roads are very difficult, and I understand why the road director is giving a large amount of information- but at the pointy end speed it's starting to become unworkable. The roadbook MUST be functionable , simple enough for the co-driver to deliver, and simple enough for the driver to comprehend. I think we are starting to lose that balance simply by adding 'everything and anything'.

I'm only saying this because I truly believe it to be true. The last thing I want to do is detract from the people running the event, people who are good rally people and did a good job. The event deserves praise, but the situation with ACT roadbooks (maybe roadbooks in general) is getting worse.

That's all I'm saying on the forums about the book. People know how to contact me if they want me to expand on my thoughts. When I get the 5 or 6 calls I always get to co-drive in the next ACT event I'll just tell the truth and say that I can't do the job for the quick boys and suggest they call someone with more talent than myself.

Also, (sorry- I'm crook and miserable) as a co-driver I want to sign for the finish time at the end of the stage. I would have thought it would be crucial to the events integrity for co-drivers to sign off on their FF time. This is starting to creep into our sport at present and it's complete BS. Not sure what the rules say, but I thought it was a pretty standard procedure that the controllee signs my card and I sign theirs. That way there is a check in place, and everything stays above board. Not the first event this has happened in...

[beanpole]

Don't think so Byron- we had caught Darren.......... plus 2 others by the end of the stage.........

What gauge fence did you use in the end?

And we didn't DNF. Honest.



Kev

[Bogan]

Originally Posted by Jme

Also, (sorry- I'm crook and miserable) as a co-driver I want to sign for the finish time at the end of the stage. I would have thought it would be crucial to the events integrity for co-drivers to sign off on their FF time. This is starting to creep into our sport at present and it's complete BS. Not sure what the rules say, but I thought it was a pretty standard procedure that the controllee signs my card and I sign theirs. That way there is a check in place, and everything stays above board. Not the first event this has happened in...

What the? We were getting all crews to sign the control paperwork at the stop point of SS1 but in all the rallies I've done I've never had a co-driver ask a controllie to sign their card?

[Kaptainballistik]

Originally Posted by Jme

I'll drive... you read the book and see how you go. If you are moving slower it's easier cause you have more time to get the information out, but you get in the seat with say a Darby or Roberts etc from up North who with respect are truly "ballistik" to the tune of maybe 10 secs a K faster and it all gets too bloody hard.

We were just ignoring the distance between calls if they were under 100 metres so I do see your point! For example....

HD: ....................then 90 metres right on crest
Me: What, your mik's sl.....OH C£@P

PS: Dont tempt me, Im always up for a Nav.....................

[Mark]

Right, some house keeping:

Beanpole, I checked with Paulie and Tamsey. Paulie moved from the Rally HQ at Cottage 5 to Tuggeranong at about the same time you were close to finishing the stage, so he was away from the Wicen guys and consequently those last few times are supposed to be based from the time card. Tamsey has the time card in his 4wd so we're waiting for him to dig it out and give the correct time to Paulie. So, you're correct you didn't DNF...

Jme, Yep, the roadbook was a bit wordy in some aspects. The story of the roadbook is that it was predominantly based on roadbooks past (Safari and Corsa notable) as well as the Blue Range stages joined together. Except for Tamsey's original writings of the Safari roadbook about three years ago, all revisions, changes and original writings to it have mainly been done by drivers: Daniel and Simey did the Safari roadbook I think last year, me and Simey this year, East/West was my Blue Range writings, two stages were from Corsa written by Ray Day. So it probably could do with some navigator input and perspective. Any navs got a spare 35 hours out there?

Of course, we've got to balance it with your previous issues about how does an out-of-towner get a fair shot of knowledge of the stages against the locals? I guess one answer is: with a comprehensive roadbook.

Ultimately, 'our' collective thoughts such as between Simey and me for example are, should we put that in or put it out and while we left some stuff out, I guess we think from a drivers perspective: "well, there's a hole on the inside of the corner and if I was having a go, I'd cut across there and that hole would trip me up and it would suck if a competitor crashed because we left the obstacles out".
Therefore, the driver perspective has its advantages and disadvantages: The Fenceline component of Bluetts is 1.3km in a straightline, downhill, with crests, jumps and humps. Simey and I checked and re-wrote that section 4 times trying to figure out at 180kph which crest, jump and hump was going to launch the cars, which crest, jump and hump the car was going to land on because as drivers we'd want to know that information We also try to think about the stages from a front of the field perspective. You know the deal: peddling along in a 4WD turbo means that you've got to think about 200m ahead so if a combination of two corners of obstacles are within 200m it's an issue because you're probably going to be in 4th gear most of the time in a 4WD, clocking 35-40m/s on average and suddenly 200m is only 5 seconds of driving time. Heaven forbid if one crashed on an uncalled corner in an Evo

I personally reckon Canberra is the most treacherous of all rally stages out there so there will always be more cautions, obstacles etc. And our road choice is getting more and more limited so we'll be forced to use the crummy roads.

So, the shortend of the stick is: we probably need an experienced nav out there to help write it prior to the Checker.

Just my personal thoughts on the roadbook issue without spin control but with the advantages and disadvantages listed.

Mark

[Linda Walker]

Originally Posted by Mark

Right, some house keeping:

Beanpole, I checked with Paulie and Tamsey. Paulie moved from the Rally HQ at Cottage 5 to Tuggeranong at about the same time you were close to finishing the stage, so he was away from the Wicen guys and consequently those last few times are supposed to be based from the time card. Tamsey has the time card in his 4wd so we're waiting for him to dig it out and give the correct time to Paulie. So, you're correct you didn't DNF...

I have dug through the info that's come to me after the event, and I have the timecard for car 39; with finish time. I'll send the details to Paulie so he can update the results.

FWIW Mark; I don't think you should have to defend the roadbook or any other aspects of the running of BRM.

You guys did a great job, and I think a few may be forgetting or may not know how much work is involved for nearly a year prior to the one day that some get a chance to have a blaat. This work is done by volunteers in their (not so) spare time. Thank you for your time, effort and expertise!

[brendan]

Originally Posted by Linda Walker

I have dug through the info that's come to me after the event, and I have the timecard for car 39; with finish time. I'll send the details to Paulie so he can update the results.

FWIW Mark; I don't think you should have to defend the roadbook or any other aspects of the running of BRM.

You guys did a great job, and I think a few may be forgetting or may not know how much work is involved for nearly a year prior to the one day that some get a chance to have a blaat. This work is done by volunteers in their (not so) spare time. Thank you for your time, effort and expertise!

I second that...

If there was really an issue with to much stuff. A nav can miss out on some of the calls. And there were stages ran twice which would of proved to be easer the second time round. But as the others have said they did not want to aim this at BRM as it was a well ran event. But Canberra rallys in general

There is now a thread open to this for decision

[DamienS]

Originally Posted by heyehy

Some awesome footage from SS1 first road closure by Girlie, just found on u tuben

airing some dirty laundry some aweome examples of how to do the corner, and how not to do it

Here is a question for the more experienced (or anyone really) drivers out there. Clearly, there are alot very capable drivers stuffing this corner up.

Which one would be a good example of the best approach to this corner (assuming reversing back and trying again does not make the list )?.

This is actually a genuine question, I am curious as to what would be the best way through this corner. I am talking RWD here.

Cheers
Damien
ps. top video girlie appreciate it.

[Kaptainballistik]

Originally Posted by DamienS

Which one would be a good example of the best approach to this corner (assuming reversing back and trying again does not make the list )?.

[MATNESmotorsports]

pic's and vids here

http://s201.photobucket.com/albums/a...TNES/BRM%2008/

MATT

[Rus]

Originally Posted by DamienS

Here is a question for the more experienced (or anyone really) drivers out there. Clearly, there are alot very capable drivers stuffing this corner up.

Which one would be a good example of the best approach to this corner (assuming reversing back and trying again does not make the list )?.

This is actually a genuine question, I am curious as to what would be the best way through this corner. I am talking RWD here.

Cheers
Damien
ps. top video girlie appreciate it.

You nailed it.. The first 5 or 6 cars on the road didn't, enough said I say Damien! Next event, I expect to see Kermit in the first five cars on road...


Event report from the silly seat of car 25

SS1 Pipeline: A nice stage, a shame I was rusty as an old Datsun with the roadbook, and very quickly feeling exactly like what I am, a novice nav. Neither Ryan or myself were on the ball on this stage and I think it'd be safe to say we were both fairly nervous as well (Ryan since his crash @ Tomerong, and me just because it tends to rub off a nervous driver!)
Trouble free run all the same. We planned on starting out slow, and gradually pushing harder throughout the day as our confidence levels came up, and I think our times reflect this. As for the Novice battle, this stage marked the first time Chris Hellessey pipped beat us in s special stage this year; Well done mate! Perhaps you should've invested in a trip-computer earlier!

SS2 Bluetts: Must've been uneventful, because nearly a week on, I can't remember hardly any of it!! Both of us still a little awkward, and having trouble finding a good rhythm. I do remember falling off the book down the fenceline, which meant we hit one of the jumps at Mach FAST in 4th gear!
Strangely enough, Ryan didn't think this was as funny as I did...
Drivers; they just don't have the right sense of humour do they!

SS3, SS7 East West: Love it... I can see why it's one of the most popular stages in Canberra. Finally Ryan and I seemed to find a bit of a groove, and we both seemed to enjoy this stage much more than the previous two. The second run through just further emphasised this point, as we bettered our first time by 23 seconds.
(SS3) I think we slid a little wide on a RGR at one point and nudged a bank with the LHR, thinking we'd lost the rear bar; but pulling into control we discovered we hit the rim, and the rim itself.
(SS3) The highlight was going through the gate @ Tulip 65 (?? could've been elsewhere; even another stage!) so crossed up I was certain there'd be an almighty bang! Luckily, I was wrong, and we didn't even manage to donate any paint to it... Noice!

SS4, SS8 Hyles: Loved it the first time; hated it the second time around.. Night stages generally bring out the best in us, but we were both amazed as to how much more technical and generally not-fun this stage became when the sun went down. Our times reflect this, as we dropped 9 seconds on the 2nd run through.

SS5, SS9 Pierces East: I've feared this stage since doing a start control on it at BRM last year. It can catch you out BIG TIME, and bite you in a big way, and with the day getting on by the time SS9 came around, I made sure to make Ryan totally aware of the potential nastiness of this stage.
We had no major incidents on either pass, with (I think) one small over shoot on the SS5 run. Much like a lot of the stages in the BRM, there were some very technical and word-heavy parts to the roadbook in here. I can remember clobbering something (rock, corpse, Old Datsun?!) quite hard in this stage; with a large concern that we might've broken something in the steering, or shredded a tyre. (With what happened in the next stage, we both have our suspicions that we might've bent a steering arm at this point).

I might add at this point, that although I found the roadbook difficult to deliver concisely at times. I still found it to be usable, and actually quite enjoyed the challenge of attempting to deliver it to Ryan effectively. At times this meant him having to simply settle with a call like: "200m caution, tidy, RGR"


SS6, SS10 Mineshaft (Sugarloaf): Good, better, fantastico! First time over the legendary Mineshaft for both of us, and holy poop, isn't it an experience. I can remember falling off the roadbook just after the RGL after the mineshaft, and not getting back on until around 5 calls later I was so overwhelmed with how truly amazing that 70m section of forest road truly is.
(Coming over the top crossed up didn't help though Ryan...)
Unfortunately, we didn't see it a second time (which bummed me out because I hated not being able to try and nail all the calls after the mineshaft on the second run through).
Somewhere in SS10,
Just after the Enchanted Forest section of the stage in SS10, (Tulip 77) we entered the RGL Don't cut at what I'd consider a very sensible road speed (great nav intuition for "oh sh$t speeds!); after all, at this point, the order of the day was "We're 10km from home buddy, let's make it to beer o'clock". We actually made the corner, and somehow managed to run wide after the exist (note: possible steering damage). The car left the road at snails pace, the soft shoulder giving way as the cars weight came onto it, and we were off the road @ some 45 degrees to the horizon. The Proton came to a near complete stop before it got real heavy on the drivers side and we rolled; not once; not twice; but three times down into the darkness below.
As far as rollovers go (and I'm no expert; this being my first) it was very soft, and the state of the car after (which ended up 25 odd metres off the road, and some 5 metres below the road level), is definitely testament to this.
The brunt of the damage was caused by a rock and a stump that we rolled over throughout the first time over. The rock almost piercing the rear section of the roof, and the stump attempting to poke a hole in the centre of the windscreen. The wing mirrors survived, only folded in, as did the Cibie Oscars; even though the lightpod was broken and one light was on the ground next to the car when we got out. Even the fibreglass spoiler on the rear of the roof lived; with only a couple of scratches on it!


All things considered, we'll be at the Bay to again, continue the fight for the Novice crown for the next one (fingers crossed). Even we I factor in the crash, I still found the event thoroughly enjoyable, and exceptionally ran!

A big high five to Tamsey and everyone for a stellar effort with this years BRM, and 1,000 thankyous and beers in waiting for anyone from the ACT All-Terrain club who reads this and wants to claim them for a completely flawless recovery of the now suitably named SQ