Nav available for Robertstown, SA

[damian]

Originally Posted by damian

...200 C into (where's a little arrow?) 9R into L9L into 7L
(onto new page)


150 thru creek (crossed out "into" arrow) L9R


as you can see i was writing as Chris was calling, but I wasn't really grouping (there is no way i would have half a call on the bottom of a page with the rest on the top of the next page. Nor would I split calls on different lines. Well, actually, there is one call on one stage that has so many into into into that it is on 2 lines, but only because I have to)

Thanks again guys for the input - all valid points that all make sense. As Andrew said the creeks are all dry, so at least we don't have to worry about hitting the water at a "good" speed relative to the water.

The notes above were my raw notes, and as mentioned when re-written a call would not end "halfway" thru on the bottom of a page. One page I have written only has 4 lines on it, instead of the usual 6 or 7 lines, as the next 4 lines of calls are all very quick and as such I have written them on a new page.

With the "thru creek" and "into creek" it might be a good idea to drop the word thru, but it may also differentiate between 150 THEN creek (150 into creek), compared to 150 with a creek halfway along that 150 stretch (150 thru creek)?

Some good comments there Lyndall (you must spread reputation around before gving more to Lyndall) thankyou. +rep to Andrew too.

Good points regarding the origianl taking down of notes during recce, Chris does tend to call the corners after we've been thru them, and the distances in advance, and then sometimes corrects them as we are about to enter the next corner.
I guess this is "normal" and I just need to be a bit better / clearer with my taking of notes.
And after first pass, I think I should re-write them so if i make corrections on the 2nd pass they will not be corrections on the corrections from the first pass, thus leading to confusion.

I think we'll be right too, but I'm a bit of a perfectionist (as if you can't tell!)

c'ya at scrutineering tonight maybe Andrew

PS - should I be asking a mod to split this stuff into a new thread by the name of "navigating / co-driving pace note help" or similar?

[flat04]

Originally Posted by damian

With the "thru creek" and "into creek" it might be a good idea to drop the word thru, but it may also differentiate between 150 THEN creek (150 into creek), compared to 150 with a creek halfway along that 150 stretch (150 thru creek)?

There shouldn't be a call "150 thru creek". It should be 75 !Creek 50. Chris really shouldn't be getting you to have notes trying to describe things half way along. If the drop into the creek is half way along then the distance should be to the drop in. Then a caution if it is a big drop in, which they are, then the distance from the creek exit to the next string of notes.

Originally Posted by damian

Good points regarding the original taking down of notes during recce, Chris does tend to call the corners after we've been thru them, and the distances in advance, and then sometimes corrects them as we are about to enter the next corner.
I guess this is "normal" and I just need to be a bit better / clearer with my taking of notes.
And after first pass, I think I should re-write them so if i make corrections on the 2nd pass they will not be corrections on the corrections from the first pass, thus leading to confusion.

As you will be rapidly finding out there really isn't a "normal". It's just what ever is safe enough and what the driver likes.

This is what we do:
First pass is the most important. You should leave the first pass with notes pretty much as they will look for the rally. This is where communication from Co-Driver to Driver is critical. If you are correcting something then you need to let the driver know that you are making a correction and that they are to slow down, or stop, so that you can complete the correction properly. ie Erasing the wrong call and writing it back in properly.

That way when you come to your second pass you have a good clean set of notes. Then on the second pass same thing applies. Driver drives through as fast as they legally and safely can and if a correction is made you should communitate to the driver to slow/stop so you can make the correction properly.

There is nothing worse than trying to tidy up a correction later, it can only lead to potential mistakes.

I call distances once the distance is completed. If there is a big rut half way along a straight and you ahve already written down 300 then you would have to rub out 300 and put back in 150 rut 150. So it's easier if the driver can drive down the straight, get to the rut and tell you 150. Means less corrections.

We use a template/markings on the steering wheel to get accuracy of the corners. So we call the corner when we are right at the expected turn in point. I drive the car straight up to the corner, slow right down, and turn the wheel at the exit. Then, not every time, look down at where the wheel is pointint at the template and saying 6. This gives really good accuracy, means you're not trying to remember what the corner was like etc.

Not everyone does it this way but it works for me. As you know though, most of the guff above is for Chris to learn/try. Your job in recce should get to the point where you just sit there and write apart from when you want him to go slower so you can catch up or do a correction. Also pipe up when something is blatantly wrong like he tells you a left and it's a right or you think a corner is really wrong.

Don't think about all this stuff above for this weekend though, this is for learning in the future. you have done your recce, now just go out there and beat everyone you can!!

See you tonight and I hope Chris doesn't rock up too late for you, he should be a movie star

Andrew

[smee]

You can always record the pace noting you do with your go-pro.

This way you can check some of the corners / calls are correctly done.

With the sound it will also enable you to re hear the call, and whether it was for what you just passed or what you are heading into.

And sorry, I assumed you were using intermediates and resetting the terratrip at each tulip. I would have had Fiona go few a few nav points if I had known.

Kuitpo will be back to tulips and road book. (Correctly printed and not back to back hopefully) We will have a talk about bits and pieces prior to the rally.

[damian]

Thanks again Andrew, yes I really need to write down my notes on the first run as clear as i can so i don't have to re-write, and really insist with Chris that he slows /stops when I need to make a correction.

And thanks for the tips on what you do in your recce - really appreciate it mate. All this will come in handy as when I start driving (AHTR next year if I can find my own Navi)

Smee - yep shoulda taken the camera. Wasn't sure it was "legal", but now I will next time.

If we aren't noting at Kuitpo but are only using the roadbook, then it should be easier. And using roadbook only I will follow the good advice of resetting the intermediate counter on the Terratrip at each tulip.

We are only doing the morning run (Clubman) yes? Or were we going to enter the whole event and just claim points for clubman? I will have to catch up with you in the next couple weeks and drop back that 2way!

[razoo]

The only other thing I could add is that where it's critical that the notes are read together underline them so you know (ie don't forget) to read them together;

200 L8 30 Creek 150 R4 into L4

[flat04]

Geoff, wouldn't you extend the line under the 150 as well?

Always finish with the distance is what we have always tried to do. That's the thing that scares me most as a driver when I don't know how much distance we have after the next corner, caution, whatever. Lucky for the nav that they are holding the sharp pencil and not me at that stage....

Andrew

[damian]

Thanks Geoff, already do that but good advice thankyou. (all advice gratefully received!)

I notice you like to have the direction called before the angle of the corner

and I would be tempted with that call to include the 150 as part of the call, so driver knows after the creek they have 150 metres before having to think about the next call.
And I would repeat the L8 30 creek 150 just as we are about to hit the L8. With calling it again I would put not so much emphases on the L8 as we are in it (or about to be in it), and then a firmer tone of voice for the 30 creek 150.

But thinking about it you seem to like to know the distance to the next corner and what that corner is? Then as we hit that corner you want to hear the distcane to the next corner and what that next corner is?

Myself, I would prefer to hear what the next corner is and then the distance after that corner to the next call. Ie:

x 200. L8 30 creek 150. R4 into L4 x distance.

all down to driver / co-driver relationship I guess, and everyone is different. Part of the sport.

[damian]

Originally Posted by flat04

Geoff, wouldn't you extend the line under the 150 as well?

beat me to it! I'm sure Geoff will clarify. maybe he likes to know the call as he described, then just before he is hitting that corner wants to know the distance after that corner and the next corner he will hit? Geoff's mind works further in advance than yours and mine?

[Rally Angel]

Originally Posted by damian

all down to driver / co-driver relationship I guess, and everyone is different. Part of the sport.

This sentence is very true. Everyone has their little quirks. I have co-driven for a few different people now and they all like to hear the notes differently, be reminded of certain things and just go about things differently from the beginning. I don't think in my 9 or so years, I have co-driven for anyone who does things exactly the same as another driver.

All the best for Robby, Damien.

Once again, apologies Catie for the huge thread hijacking!

[razoo]

I've probably mentally underlined the 150 but I want to make sure after the fast L8 (or 8L) that the driver is lined up for the creek then feed him the 150 at the right time with the next instruction. I rarely repeated instructions for drivers I have navved for. Only if they request it "Repeat!"

I've seen some recent incar of navigators with verbal diarrhoea and it scares me that the driver might screw up because of the mulitplicity of calls.


Geoff
We should probably discuss a real life example rather than my madeup one!

G

[Velocity Racing]

Originally Posted by smee

Kuitpo will be back to tulips and road book

Kuitpo will be fully pacenotef for both SARC & clubman...

The wombat rallysprint will be the final clubman round on october 16th and will be a day night rallysprint with a recce run before each stage that you can use to note..

Cheers Lewis

[damian]

Thanks Lewis, I thought Kuitpo was pace noted, was going to double check next week, but you saved me a job thankyou!

And I was under the impression Kuitpo was the last round of the Clubman, as the first round was cancelled and there was only to be 3 rounds now, with Kuitpo the last?

I can find info on a Wombat rallysprint from 09 and further back, but not for 2010?
Walkerville All Cars Club Inc

PS - Thanks Geoff & Lisi (& Catie!)
can't wait for tomorrow

[Velocity Racing]

No the wombat rally was just postponed, not cancelled which is good... We will ne running it as a rallysprint in conjunction with a walky park trophy day...it will still be round 1 of the clubman championship.. Kuitpo will still get 1.5x points... More info on the wombat soon...

[damian]

Thanks Lewis - I will spread the word, I think most people thought it was cancelled and only going to be the 3 rounds.

[Velocity Racing]

Great thanks for that the promotion stuff will start flowing soon!