Thoughts on WRC and Group N roll cage issues

[ernysp76]

Don't know if anyone has checked out the in car footage of the apparent disintegration of the Atkinson Roll Cage recently and the similar apparant failure of Petters Cage and his subsequent tonge in cheek remark . I have never seen a cage do this. While not pre-empting the cause of the recent death of Khalid Bakhress in a Subaru Impreza N12B built by what may in fact be the same company it does raise a concern that the company is also the manufacturers representative. Is anyone aware of any moves to put a stop on using cars built for rallying by this manufacturer until there is a independant report done on what is happening?

[MarkH]

John, you might want to check This Thread first.

[ernysp76]

Originally Posted by datto57

John, you might want to check This Thread first.

Thanks Mark,

I did check it out but it seems there is very little questioning going on in relation to the safety of these cars. I have seen cars in lesser rolls and side impacts than those cars involved in collisions at the recent WRC and even the Solberg incident in Germany in 2005 and survive very well. I am afraid that the recent death is being glossed over because it happen in a country that will not be as thorough as others in determining the cause or contributing factors. I don't even know if cars by this manufacturer are being used in Australia, what I do know if it was a suspect food item that is being sold in Australia and caused a death in another country they would be immediately withdrawn from sale or use until a investigation is held. Is CAMS doing this? or should we test the mettle of the AASA to see if it will seek and investigation?

[Jme]

From what I understand of Khalid's accident... he hit a telegraph pole.

Whilst there may be some grain of evidence to suggest that the Prodrive cars have a weaker roll cage build than some, it remains a fact that rallying is inherently dangerous and hitting solid, narrow objects like telegraph poles and trees- at speed- is always going to end unfavourably.

The best thing we can do is choose our rally road carefully. The best safety feature is road selection. He is an idea... lets stop worrying about how Prodrive build there roll cages, because 99.99% of us will never sit in a Prodrive car- and implement a strategy in our rallies along the lines of "If the fastest car on the stage averages over 100kph in a clubman/novice rally the stage is scrapped and the director is automatically charged".

I've done a fair bit of rallying now, at all levels. The best way to control safety is to control the speeds of the cars by road selection. If we continue to chase logging trucks down fast/smooth forest highways on timed events we are asking for trouble. It's plain common sense.

How many of us had our hearts in our mouths when we heard that Ed Ordynski had crashed on the top of Watagan Rd. I was with John Mitchell at the time, we were both fairly silent until John said something like "you don't wanna be going and doing that- hope they are OK". This is the road some call the best rally road in the country! BS it is... it's a fatality waiting to happen. The roads at the Great Lakes and Myall are too fast now that they've been re-graded as well. Put us down the goat tracks, swap and change us off main roads in loops. The Pine Forests are much safer than the Great Divide roads, a bit of rough every now and then is good.

We are just dumb. We must wear driving suits, boots, balaclava, we must embrace the HANS rules, we must limit turbo cars to 220kph by using a turbo restrictor cause god forbid 260kph would be dangerous, we must build roll-cages with endless bars etc.... yep that's all in order- we have safety under control so now go and race down this tree-lined road in 5th gear.

[bob moore]

Originally Posted by Jme

The best way to control safety is to control the speeds of the cars by road selection............ Put us down the goat tracks, swap and change us off main roads in loops........... a bit of rough every now and then is good.

For once - the first time? - I find myself um, errrr, lemmethink, errr ......... agreeing with Jme!

I'm off to counselling ..................

[Adrian]

Originally Posted by bob moore

For once - the first time? - I find myself um, errrr, lemmethink, errr ......... agreeing with Jme!

I'm off to counselling ..................

Me to......... Bob can you get a double appointment at the counselor

AD

[AussieNav]

I think JME is the one that needs councelling, what the hell are you doing on here at 4am dude?

Although answering a previous post of 1 ish am you might need to join a line to seek help there...

[miket]

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob moore


For once - the first time? - I find myself um, errrr, lemmethink, errr ......... agreeing with Jme!

I'm off to counselling ..................

Me to......... Bob can you get a double appointment at the counselor

AD

Maybe a Group therapy session over several glasses of medicene is called for.

[ernysp76]

I think you have hit the nail on the head.

It shouldn't detract for rally as a spectator sport it would cetainly make it safer and where do the crowds stand anyway? on corners. I guess I must have this in the back of my mind when driving sometimes, I see this line of very solid objects (trees) going past my window at a great rate of knotts and think Hmm...

I personally like tight technical courses with abit of rough thrown in I think if you want fast open sections well make them fast and more importantly open. The Bega shire roads are a great example of this, funny I always get good times on these and then I slow down again on similar road surface types when I hit the forest sections. Little voice in back of head perhaps saying this is nuts.

Profound comments and concerns raised by the Victorian Hill Climbers State meeting 12 months before the death in Victoria recently where they were extremely concerned about the high speeds of tarmac and dirt rally events with little in the way of safety catches on dangerous corners that they would be required to install if the same event has been clasified a hill climb.

[VTRacing]

Originally Posted by ernysp76

I see this line of very solid objects (trees) going past my window at a great rate of knotts and think Hmm...

As an aside, that just has to be the pun of the century...

[ernysp76]

Thanks.

[jamar]

another vote for Jme..

In addition: the feedback from the Corsa last year - which was predicted to be criticised for road choice, was mostly favourable - maybe Ray Day and his LCCC counterparts are the road director's of the future ??

or at least - there is a lesson to learn there somewhere..

[bob moore]

Originally Posted by jamar

another vote for Jme..

Stop it!

We'll all go blind!

[Mark]

Talk about inferior rollcages...check out this gem. From another works team, Citroen, from the 1999 Citroen Xsara in F2. Remember when the Peugeot and Citroen's were beating the WRCars on tarmac due to a superior power-to-weight ratio.
Nabbed from http://www.mcklein-imagedatabase.com...ex.php?index=2
It's a bit ummmm....minimalistic.

Mark

[smee]

Thats not a true representation.
What this shot fails to show is the occupant caged area.
Has cross hoops in the roof, along with side intrusion bars.