Electric Water Pumps.

[imortl]

Well from the basics, are these allowed? I have seen the notes about the heaters having to be retained, but nothing about the coolant propulsion.

2ndly, are these any good? are there any recommendations?

I had found these:

EWP80 (12V) ELECTRIC WATER PUMP - PART No: 8005

but wasn't sure if there were others to consider. I mean these are supposed to be good to a 5L engine. That's a little overkill for me I think.

Also, how so you go about getting a shorter fan belt? Is it just a matter of measuring the leftover distance and hunting?

Suppose I should mention that its for the Capella with a standard 1600.

Thanks in advance peoples!

[Swill]

There are but why would you want one? Put a smaller pulley on the pump you've got

[imortl]

Originally Posted by Swill

There are but why would you want one? Put a smaller pulley on the pump you've got

Its not about water flow. The temperature of the engine is more than fine. I was just looking at it from the perspective lifting the load off the engine. Would a smaller pulley not increase the load (ratios and all that?)

Is it an urban myth or does an electric pump provide (or free up) a few more hp?

[Warpspeed]

Yes it frees up some power. Just like having a pee and a crap every time before you get into the car increases your overall power to weight ratio.

But seriously, these pumps lack water pumping power and often have reliability issues too. If you don't mind cracking a few cylinder heads occasionally, these pumps are great for the posers and connoisseurs of bling. You will never find one on a serious works competition engine.

Just remember, the function of the water pump is not only to move sufficient water volume around the system, but to seriously pressurise the coolant in the cylinder head. Water at 30 to 60 psi (at very high rpm only) resists boiling far more than the base water pressure at only 12 psi set by the radiator cap. All this extra pressure comes from the massively overworked mechanical water pump, pumping against a DELIBERATE restriction offered by the thermostat. On a dyno for instance, this overpressure is vital to prevent steam bubbles from forming around the combustion chambers and exhaust ports.

Anyone that removes the thermostat, or fits an electric water pump has lost the plot.
They will also have lost water pressure, and will probably also eventually lose a cylinder head at sustained maximum power in a serious engine.

In a bog stock streeter, it probably does not matter. Until an electrical fault stops the pump.

At lest with a busted fan belt, the alternator light immediately comes on.
With a failed electric water pump you may not notice straight away...........

I would not fit one to an engine even if it was given to me free.

If they start appearing on production cars, or factory race cars I might change my mind, but until then I will remain completely unconvinced these are a good idea.

[kayzee]

I have a "dedenbear" electric water pump on an L series motor that seems to do the business, we control it with a davies craig controller. Water always seems to stay at the optimum temp especially in very cold conditions as in NZ. Seemed to hold the temp well within range even on the dyno here in Cairns. Car runs a standard 1600 radiator and of course no thermostat. Specs say it is capable of 23 gallons(us) per minute and max current at 6amps. Hope this info helps, I chose this brand after looking at the davies craig and talking to end users that had already replaced the pump 2-3 times. This pump also has bleed valve to help overcome any airlock problems.

Cheers
David Kayess

[dsm2002]

Originally Posted by Warpspeed

If they start appearing on production cars, or factory race cars I might change my mind, but until then I will remain completely unconvinced these are a good idea.

New BMWs use electric water pumps, however, I note they did not just bung on a Davies Craig EWP.

[DAT610_WA]

A mate had the same thought, but then it all got a bit complex in trying to figure out how often it should and shouldn't pump and when the fans should switch on. It can become all a bit mind bending. In the end he threw it, stuck with the mechanical pump and used the MoTec to switch the fans. I dunno, maybe I'm just a bit simplistic, but electronic bits and pieces in a hot, vibrating, non IP rated engine bay just don't seem like a good idea.

[Matthew Ferguson]

Ive got one in the escort, Wired to run flat out all the time.
I have a 82deg thermostat, and I have never seen the gague past 90deg.

Seems fine to me.

(2ltr Pinto)

[Warps]

Quite a few IPRA guys use them. Hardly factory race teams, but a lot of very big $$ engines there, and a lot of serious competitors. They're not all bling brigade, either.

Personally, I have the same reservations about them, but then again, I was of the belief that a good driver could always out drive ABS.....and that cruise control could cause your throttle to jam open......and central locking would make your car easier to steal.....and.....

They might still be sorting their reliability, but if fighter jets can stay in the sky with fly by wire everything, I'd say that electronics shouldn't be the weak link in a humble rally car.

[DAT610_WA]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ferguson

Ive got one in the escort, Wired to run flat out all the time.
I have a 82deg thermostat, and I have never seen the gague past 90deg.

Seems fine to me.

(2ltr Pinto)

If it's running flat out all the time, was there a point in moving from a mechanical one that at least varied with engine revs.

Warps - Know what you mean, but fighter jets don't have to stay in the air long before they get shot down
I'm more for the simplistic approach I guess, which is why in these times of fuel injection and variable valve timing I decided to build a Webered Datsun Not sure why I did that now

[buzzard]

Originally Posted by Matthew Ferguson

Seems fine to me.

(2ltr Pinto)

With all due respect, "seems" is not an engineering term.

Warpspeed has a good understanding of the situation.

Chris

[Matthew Ferguson]

Originally Posted by DAT610_WA

If it's running flat out all the time, was there a point in moving from a mechanical one that at least varied with engine revs.

Warps - Know what you mean, but fighter jets don't have to stay in the air long before they get shot down
I'm more for the simplistic approach I guess, which is why in these times of fuel injection and variable valve timing I decided to build a Webered Datsun Not sure why I did that now

I mean the thermostat still opperates, IE, under 82 deg its closed and stops the flow, with the exception of two small holes (that I Drill) in the flange of the thermostat to ensure that there is flow past the thermostat to ensure opening. (As I have gone to electric heating for the front window), Also has the benifit of quick warm up...

I imagine that the electric pumps are at least as good as the belt driven ones, The big concern of "Pinto" water pumps is a that at full revs (over 6500) it'll cavatate (Becoming in-effective) at the time you most need it.
The electrical pump allways runs at 80GPH (or 120GPH) allowing the thermostat to do it job.

Electrons are you freind, remember it just like plumbing, dont let them leak out of your systems, and fall to earth.........

[Ben Wilson]

While Warpspeeds arguments are vaild, I ran an EWP on the mr2 and it worked perfectly, it would reach operating temperature by the end of my street and the gauge would never budge after that.

The car was running a supercharger with the standard NA cooling system* and it handled everything I could throw at it at Wakefield without missing a beat.

I also really liked being able to switch the engine off and leave the water pump/thermo fans running...

* - AFAIK the supercharged cars ran the same cooling system as the NA cars.

[Matt Dyne]

Apparently there are ones bigger and better than the Davies Craig ones. Anybody know of these at all?

Anyboy know about the BMW ones and where I might be able to find out about them?

Ta,
M

[Warps]

Originally Posted by DAT610_WA

Warps - Know what you mean, but fighter jets don't have to stay in the air long before they get shot down

Haha I guess the same could be said for rotary rally cars - it's not long before something else breaks

Electrons are you freind, remember it just like plumbing, dont let them leak out of your systems, and fall to earth

pffft. Haven't you learnt anything? It's all about keeping the smoke in the wires.