Pacenotes - Brindabella Motor Sport Club

ericson · 28-01-2010, 08:08 PM

I'm not too sure whether I'm asking too many questions - please understand

OK, I'm a big fan of Colin McRae Rally and I turn off the 'direction arrows' as I enjoy listening to the co-driver telling me direction along with its severity. But I have noticed the layout of pacenote have changed between Colin McRae Rally 2005 and Colin McRae Rally DiRT 2.

Colin McRae Rally 2005: 4 Right, tightens to 2, 1 Left over jump etc
Colin McRae Rally Dirt 2: Right 4, tightens to 2, etc

It seems in 2005, numbers represents severity of corner 1 being almost 180, while in Dirt 2, numbers represents appropirate gears to attack a corner. I feel more comfortable with 2005 version which tells me the severity as I only drive Subaru WRX manual and quite familiar with its gear's speed range etc.

Which way is most commonly used in rally world? or do each drivers have their unique way of making pacenotes?

truessman · 28-01-2010, 08:25 PM

You should ask the navigators... us drivers have no idea what they are babbling on about in between sobs and shrieks.

PS - Noones has congratulated you on your spelling and grammar. I say - well done.

(Just though of it while trying to read a post from someone elsewhere who belives wud and shud are words.)

VTRacing · 28-01-2010, 09:37 PM

There's a fair bit of info in the forum already - probably a good place to start is this thread: pace notes

Basically every driver has their own system (or their own variations on the same system). Most drivers use numbers to grade the corners, but some don't.

Some swear by putting the direction first (L4), others swear that the number should go first (4L).

At the end of the day, it doesn't matter what system the driver uses - so long as they can justify their system and it makes sense to them.

Here's one method for the busiest co-driver in the WRC:

YouTube- (HD)Onboard Petter Solberg Subaru Impreza WRC Finland Rally 2004 - Ouninpohja p1

And here's another completely different method:

YouTube- Nesbitt onboard

And another:

YouTube- Richard Burns onboard Peugeot 206 - Finland

No one system is better than another necessarily - but if you're starting out then I would suggest finding someone's system that makes sense to you as a starting point then adjusting it from there.

imortl · 28-01-2010, 10:09 PM

We Navvies may spew drivvel to some drivers, we only give them what they give us! Garbage in, Garbage out!

I have only done one event on notes and the other 6 events on roadbooks with 3 different drivers, so I am by no means a vastly experienced Nav. I have listened to a few different sets of in car and the one thing that seems to be common across all of them is that the Nav gives the driver what he wants.

Some want the direction followed by the angle.

Right 3 into Left 4 opens....

Some want the angle followed by the direction.

3 Right into 4 Left opens....

Then there is the way that the angles are called. In the Cr@pella we used 1-6. 1 (tighest), 3 (right angle) and 6 (open) as the car really wasn't fast enough to need the differentiation.

When I did some practise notes with Michael Patton (the guy who won the WRC ride) and he was being taught 1-10. 1 (tighest), 3 (right angle) and then 4-10 for the next 90 degrees. The way it was explained on the day was 10 = flat in 5th, 9 = brake in 5th, 8 = flat in 4th, 7 = brake in 4th etc....

If you listen to some of Michael Guest's in-car, he has notes like Sega Rally. Long Medium Right into Medium Left.

As far as what is most popular, it seems to be 1 - 10 but I cannot comment as to if the gradings are the same as I have mentioned above.

Even with road books it varies from driver to driver. Some want it called at 500m, 300m 200m,100m and then the call, others just want it 100m to the call. Some have asked me to not call metres i.e 500, 400, 300 etc.

With less than 10 events to my name I do not claim any large level of profiency, but this is what I have come across in my short time.

Hope its useful! I am keen to see what other post as well....

Spac · 28-01-2010, 10:11 PM

At club events, we usually use a road book, rather than pace notes.

Compared to pace notes, a road book gives a lot less information (eg: 100m Turn Left at T-junction, 850m Road goes right, 1.8km Caution rough downhill).

Road booked events require a slightly different set of skills for both the driver and the navigator - for a driver, its more a your ability to read the road and be able to cope with the unexpected.
Events with pace notes are typically the bigger, more expensive events.

I'm sure someone can post up an example of a road book page.

VTRacing · 28-01-2010, 10:14 PM

Here's an example of a roadbook event, at least:

No pacenotes allowed.

VTRacing - 2009 Gallangowan 150 - SS8 Brimms 2 on Vimeo

Nighto · 28-01-2010, 10:38 PM

No matter how i try i cannot get my head around the 1 - 10 system too many variables.........we are not running at wrc pace

Keep it simple stupid system for me KISS........

straight on then 1-3 for the corner severity ( like a clock ) then TVH with opens, tightens or fast.. easy..we add things like logs, do not cut etc

3 = 90 degree turn and anything more = TVH ( turn very hard ) which is right if its tighter than 90 degrees its tight !!

what more do you need , works for me....... but what makes sense to one may not for another.........

ericson · 29-01-2010, 12:16 AM

Sorry about it, I could not find a topic in regard to pace note. Do this forum have some kind of 'search' feature? Anyway so each drivers have their unique way of reading the pace notes. But God I can not follow Petter Solberg's pace notes, it's tooooo speedy for me to understand and follow. What about you people? Can you understand them if you were the driver, but at a slower pace?

Oh and also, roadbook seems non-technical as it sounds more like plain English with a few extra words. Have you taught yourself on how to read or write roadbook or pacenote or similar note?

I will do some search and take a look at the PDF file posted above.
Cheers.

fro · 29-01-2010, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericson

Sorry about it, I could not find a topic in regard to pace note. Do this forum have some kind of 'search' feature?

There should be a navigation bar to the left of the text in the thread... <----

Third from the bottom of those options should be a link that says "Search"...

Worst comes to worst, follow this link.

Jme · 29-01-2010, 12:41 AM

One thing I know about notes/roadbook is that drivers have the easy bit. All they have to do is listen.

Buerckner · 29-01-2010, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jme

All they have to do is listen.

and how well do they do that?

smee · 29-01-2010, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buerckner

and how well do they do that?

Some listen, and are then required to talk back telling the Nav "where they are".....

Buerckner · 29-01-2010, 11:58 AM

sometimes......

but then we still have the roadbook/trip computer to blame!

macksrallye · 29-01-2010, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericson

I'm not too sure whether I'm asking too many questions - please understand

Eric, one way to get this & many other questions answered is to get involved. Go to a local moto/khanacross as usually the guys involved in this are involved in rallying. Start to go to events as a spectator or even as an official (I'm sure there are guys that are willing to take you to events) and see the sport that you are so interested in. Trust me, it will all start to go onward & upward from there & you will learn everything you need to know along the way.

ericson · 29-01-2010, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macksrallye

Eric, one way to get this & many other questions answered is to get involved.
...
Trust me, it will all start to go onward & upward from there & you will learn everything you need to know along the way.

Thank you getting involved is the best way to learn, understood. But as you may know I won't be able to get involved for 5 to 7 years as my guardian won't let me go anywhere untill the HSC concludes - I've been to Mt Stromlo and Majura Pines for my hobby (mountain biking) way too much and spent a lot of $$$ in transportation and she wants me to study and forget about biking or whatever for now..

But I will be involved for sure, it's one of my dream, sort of.