Subaru CRC/PRC rally car

[cjc_rally]

I have been contemplating an idea for a while to replace my current car (Torana) with the progressive build of a Subaru to match available $$$ and increase in skills etc. I wanted to start with a basic car, invest in a good cage and suspension, and run it NA and 2WD so can do CAMS Clubman level events. As the skills develop, 4WD could follow and then step up to a Turbo etc. This would enable me to use one bodyshell to cover a range of development levels rather than have to go to a new car to step from 2WD to 4WD etc.

The idea of a Brumby rally car appeals to my warped sense of humour. How does CAMS treat selectable 4WD cars? If I can prove that it will only be run in 2WD (i.e. remove a set of driveshafts), will I be allowed to run like this? I believe that the Brumby/Brat was sold OS with a 1.8L turbo engine. Does anyone know if this was homologated (or how I find out)?

I want to build a RWD car, which I have read can be done with an AWD Subaru by welding up the centre diff and removing the front driveshafts. If I can run one as a 2WD, then I could run it as a PRC as the regs only state “the number of driven road wheels may not be changed”, i.e. it doesn’t matter which end. The trouble with PRC is the more restrictive engine options than CRC (particularly for an old style 1.8L engine that would be in a Brumby). CRC gives good options for engine upgrades (EJ20 etc) but it appears harder to run a RWD Subaru as it states that “Driveline configurations must remain as standard; eg, a front-engine, rear-wheel drive car must remain so configured”.

Another option would to get an old FWD Impreza or Liberty, bolt in a rear cross-member and AWD box and run RWD under PRC. I would probably be stuck with a small carb motor though so would be no rocket ship.

Would like to hear your constructive comments, or to tell me my idea is s*^t and go buy an Excel or Commodore instead!

Cheers,
Chris

[buzzard]

Your idea sux, go and buy an excel.

Chris

[fro]

If you want a RWD, buy a Commodore.

If you want a Subaru, buy a Turbo$WD one to start with.

[Damo]

The early shape Impreza RX (EJ20 n/a) is still a P3 car even though it is 4WD, and at least in Canberra type stages I reckon would be a good alternative clubman level car against the Dattos and other stuff you would be up against.

Bernie Miron (?) in VIC seems to run his with pretty decent results.

I have thought about one for a while, and If someone else was paying I'd definitley build one!! Obviously, there are plenty of options about for brakes, suspension etc, and it would then offer the turbo uprgade option later on.

I dont think it would be particularly cheap though, and also dont think there is any way you would be able to run in RWD (or any reason to).
Forget the earlier cars and the 1.8 turbo motor, not worth it.

[Jme]

I think building a car is hard/expensive enough without re-inventing the wheel.

There is some wisdom in buying older 4wd cars and running them basically standard with a cage in AMSAG events without a restrictor. I know Tim Joass just picked up a 'cheap' GSR Lancer and plans to do just that and build it up slowly over time to Evo3 spec.

You can maybe pick one up for 3-4K (or less), add that again for a sweet cage and then swap over seats, harnesses etc from the Torana.

It's always going to work out more expensive than buying one that's build and sorted, but I guess it removes the 12-15K lump sum, you can do it in chunks of a few K at a time, but the extra build cost I think makes the interest on borrowing 12K look cheap.

Cage, computer, suspension, exhaust, sump guard, brakes etc. and most of the early 4wd's have the gearbox as a weak link so engineering an option there can get expensive.

The best cheap RWD option I know of is the R30 Skyline. Many engines, both Turbo and NA.

[Dweller]

What a bunch of miserable wayne kerrs.
Young fella you go and build whatever you want, for some inspiration have a look in NZ.
Rear wheel drive WRX's with lexus V8's and just recently I found a Ford Fiesta fitted with 380kw's of BA Falcon turbo and 6 speed sequential box.
Take absolutely no notice of these of those old has beens.

[Dweller]

Originally Posted by buzzard

Your idea sux, go and buy an excel.

Chris

Thats better.

[cjc_rally]

Thanks to all who have responded.

The main reason I wanted to run 2WD (at least for a while initially) was so that I could access Clubman events and maybe the odd Autocross (which are both 2WD only in WA where I will be moving soon). 4WD/Turbo etc could be some years down the track, but I was looking for some long term flexibility.

I am aware that buying a ready built car is the cheaper way to go. (But building the thing and tinkering to get it just right is half the fun. I certainly am not doing it to win, I know my ability (and budget) is not in that league!)

Cheers,
Chris

[fro]

If you are looking at it to do Clubman in WA, I'd definitely be talking to someone in WA about it... but there isn't AMSAG in WA, and I think the idea of rallying a RWD Liberty/Impreza/other Subaru that started as a 4WD would make heads explode even more than it would in NSW/ACT.

[Grisha910]

If i can throw my 10 cents worth in (no GST jokes)

As a fellow rookie, your first car is likely to have a limited life span!

You, like me are likely to make mistakes and damage the car, possibly to the point of wrecking it.

If you want to learn in the clubman rounds where 2wd is the go in WA: build a FWD car (Excells are hard to beat for Bang for $). Learn the craft, check that it is what you want to do (the time and money equation never ceases once you start) and then look at what you want to do:

You may just be perfectly happy in a FWD (or RWD), or you may wish to step up to a 4wd and be looking for something more suited to your skills/desires etc than the FWD to 4WD conversion you have suggested. An Evo 2 or 3 may be a better choice if you look at the support/spares availability point of view.

Just some thoughts rather than an answer

Cheers

Greg

[DAT610_WA]

A late 90's Imprezza RS sounds more like what you want. Not 100% sure, but believe they're exactly the same chassis as the turbo AWD models. FWD 2.0L, which is probably closer to an AWD driving style than a RWD car.
Same track and wheelbase as the AWD version, so car familiarity remains un-changed. Can probably upgrade the front to the AWD hubs and knuckles for better reliability (if they aren't already ?)
Easy to bolt in the AWD and turbo powerplant when you can afford it in a couple of years time.
You might even keep up with the excels that are setting impressive times at the local autocross...

SWTCC Autocross Results

Or you could just buy an excel now and be in the mix NOW and in a few years time when you can afford to upgrade to a AWD, buy an 'old' Evo 10 or whatever the fast thing is at the time.

[Jme]

Originally Posted by Dweller

What a bunch of miserable wayne kerrs.
Young fella you go and build whatever you want, for some inspiration have a look in NZ.
Rear wheel drive WRX's with lexus V8's and just recently I found a Ford Fiesta fitted with 380kw's of BA Falcon turbo and 6 speed sequential box.
Take absolutely no notice of these of those old has beens.

Weird response.

Some people in the sport struggle to look past 1974 for inspiration... even with cheap power options FJ20's, SR20DET's etc staring them right in the face and a class/structure made available for them in NSW.

[Marcus]

Originally Posted by DAT610_WA

A late 90's Imprezza RS sounds more like what you want. Not 100% sure, but believe they're exactly the same chassis as the turbo AWD models. FWD 2.0L, which is probably closer to an AWD driving style than a RWD car.
Same track and wheelbase as the AWD version, so car familiarity remains un-changed. Can probably upgrade the front to the AWD hubs and knuckles for better reliability (if they aren't already ?)
Easy to bolt in the AWD and turbo powerplant when you can afford it in a couple of years time.
You might even keep up with the excels that are setting impressive times at the local autocross...

SWTCC Autocross Results

Or you could just buy an excel now and be in the mix NOW and in a few years time when you can afford to upgrade to a AWD, buy an 'old' Evo 10 or whatever the fast thing is at the time.

IIRC, the RS was always AWD. The GL was FWD and there's not many of those around!

However a RS is not a bad place to start. Easy convert to a WRX but in itself a nice reliable not too powerful but good handling car that if you want to push has a surprising turn of speed as you can get a RS with a 2.5 and they are light. Robert Dean from Bathurst runs one and he's damn near next to uncatchable in a khanacross

[slowlearner]

sorry, but can I clarify something pls?

what exactly is wrong with your torana? Is it caged and rally ready? Coz if it's a PRC legal car I don't really see why you'd want to do all the work on a brumby to get it to do the same thing really. Not only that, but if it's not already V8 powered, I think you'll find a swap over to a healthy 308 will cure all your AWDturbo desires. Sure your tyre bill will increase, but not beyond what you are talking about spending on a brumby. Not only that, but you'll have the favorite car in the paddock. I mean, who doesn't want to do HUGE power slides in a V8 torana? There's a whole new skill level that goes with a car of that power level. So there's your skill issue gone.

Just quietly I'd make two other comments too.
1. I don't know you/haven't seen your drive/bear no ill will, but, if you are not winning your class in the torana yet, you are probably not ready to move up to a quicker car and there is heaps more work to be done there both on the car and your driving too.
2. knowing the general attitude that CAMS has to "out of the box" and having read the CRC rule book I'd almost guarantee a big fat "no" to your crazy plan of brumby evolution straight off the bat as the brumby was never released in a purely 2wd platform.

My tip is, make the Rahni work and then sell it to buy a wrx/evo down the track.

[Mike Cherry]

[quote]

Originally Posted by slowlearner

2. knowing the general attitude that CAMS has to "out of the box" and having read the CRC rule book I'd almost guarantee a big fat "no" to your crazy plan of brumby evolution straight off the bat as the brumby was never released in a purely 2wd platform.

Or......just don't tell 'em.