323 brake options

[Mathew Boorman]

I am looking at options for brake upgrades on the 323, which in this regard is now a 808, with the stub axles having the same brake spider mounts as 929's and RX4's :-)


From the points below you can tell I have convinced myself that the Camira parts are the go. [Apply cold water here]

- Camira F+R calipers + 626 FWD disks
Cheap calipers
bolt on disks
same car, so no major imbalance
fit under 13"s easily
Need to Build adapters
Hand brake type???
Pad goodness/$ ?
Use with XXX Master Cyclinder???

Rx7 series 2
SpacSpeed adaptor as template

- Comma,dore Door front calipers
big
cheap
work good

Volvo 240 calipers
good, cheap.

- Rx4/929 bits
- bolt on
- drum rears :vomit:
- Eat pads/caliper slides
- can use modified escort pads (or was that 808?)
- just not sexy ;-)

808 bits
- bolt on
- even less sexy than Rx4 bits


Sorry spac for the ones I stuffed up/forgot most detail, but I know you love to post so can fill in the many gaps and errors :-) Brain overloaded.

[TX3 Rally]

What year/model 323? and for chrissakes don't mention twincam or they'll lynch ya

If you can tell me what year and model I may have a huge goldmine source of info that will probably have a bolt on suggestion.

[fro]

Kent,

Think old 323... the RWD ones!

[Spac]

Matt, I don't think any Camiras came with rear discs. You'd need Commodore rear calipers - I believe that the Commodore and Camira front calipers have the same bore size, so you won't have any bias dramas using Camira F & Commode R.

If you want to fit rear discs under 13s, you'll need S2 RX-7 discs, or go Christopher Columbus style. Then use R31 Skyline/Pintara/Commodore/S2 RX-7/Fiat rear calipers.

An RX-5 7/8" master cylinder will work fine with any permutation or combination of the above-mentioned calipers.

If you're prepared to go to 14s or 15s (and can find/afford the wheels), then common options are:
S4 RX-7. Will juuusst fit under most 14s, despite popular opinion.
Caliper brackets are available, at a cost.
Lots of different discs used under these, including RX-7, Volvo and some lateish-model Commodore (VS?)
Would be happy with a 7/8" MC.

Volvo. Will fit under 14s, easily. Heavier and a little bit more flexible than the RX-7 bits, but also a lot cheaper... Cheapest and easiest to use the Volvo disc.
Would need 1" Kingswood (or possibly early Patrol) MC.

If you go with either of thse options, thne the previously mentioned rear options will be letting the team down. Skyline 2-piston alloy calipers, Volvo rears, S3+ RX-7 rears, and Commodore fronts would all be worthy matches. I'd avoid the RX-7 ones because the pad area is fairly small.

But then again, these options are huge overkill for a light, P1/P2 car like the 323 - stick with the Holden calipers on FWD 626 discs, and you'll be fine.


I have the brackets to use as templates for the Commodore/Camira front calipers, and for the S2/Fiat rear calipers.

[Mathew Boorman]

Originally Posted by TX3 Rally

What year/model 323? and for chrissakes don't mention twincam or they'll lynch ya

Like Fro said. 1980, sedan, RWD

I'll stay with 13"s thanks... starts to sound too much ha$$le otherwise.

Originally Posted by Spac

or go Christopher Columbus style.
Then use R31 Skyline/Pintara/Commodore/S2 RX-7/Fiat rear calipers.

wha???

Camira front calipers, 626 FWD disk
Commadore rear calipers, ??? disk
RX-5 7/8" master cylinder


Whats the handbrake setup with the Commadore calipers?

[Spac]

Commode rear calipers don't have a hand brake mech. The Commode discs use an internal drum for the hand-brake.
Just go for a hydraulic h'brake.

Any of the rear calipers I mentioned will work. The Fiat and Mazda calipers are the most common choices on the rear of old Mazdas - they have mechanical handbrake mechs built into them (but my experience of Fiat calipers + Mazda h'brake lever suggests that they're a waste of time...).

Going Christopher Columbus = Entering the unknown, exploring unchartered territory. I'm sure there's heaps of other disc/caliper options out there, but it'll be up to you to discover them.

As to which rear discs to use:

Originally Posted by Spac

If you want to fit rear discs under 13s, you'll need S2 RX-7 discs,

[Mathew Boorman]

Hmmmm,

OK I found some RX4 front hubs, it just clicked that I should be able to bolt on the 808 disks and calipers, so no pressing need to upgrade the front further just yet.

I am a bit suspect about the brake balance on the car, but maybe other things(me) are to blame. I know the drag is not even between sides, so I guess I should service all 4 corners first to make sure all is good and slidey.

[BlueRex]

Originally Posted by Mathew Boorman

I am a bit suspect about the brake balance on the car,

Nah! Ya reccon? I thought tank-slappers were just part of the 323 charm

C

[Mathew Boorman]

Oi knock it off Wannup, the car is perfect!

Well at least 50%, it can cop blame for 1 tank slapper, but claim 1 understeer off the road as entirely my own.

Now the trick is actually figuring out how to make it all work better. Shocks with oil on the inside are immenent, hence I am leaning towards leaving other stuff alone, and just making sure its working properly.

[Mathew Boorman]

[QUOTE=Tweety]
OK I found some RX4 front hubs, it just clicked that I should be able to bolt on the 808 disks and calipers, so no pressing need to upgrade the front further just yet.
My 808 has RX-4 hubs and discs, and 808 calipers. Presumably the bolt spacing for the 808 discs is the same? I don't know coz I didn't try it.
[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Spac lost n recovered

Yes, discs are totally interchangeable - to the point that DBA doesn't make/sell 808 discs anymore. They'll sell you a disc for an 808 no worries... but it's actually an RX-4/929 one.

The difference? RX-4 discs are a whole 1mm thicker.

Hmmm, I assumed they must have be different sizes as the mounting plates were different. Hmmm Rods already modified the 929 plates to fit.

Jen... I might grab those, I havn't got a pressy in the mail as yet, and am now back here for the weekend so can work out what spacers I need.

[Tweety]

Er, the first part of what you quoted as me is actually your post!

I'm pretty sure there are some other hubs floating around though. I'm busy Sunday, but give me a call if you want to come look some time tomorrow.

[Spac]

Caliper mounting brackets are interchangeable on the struts, and have the same bolt spacing.
The difference is the shape of the dust shield and/or the bracket - meaning that the RX-4 caliper won't bolt to the 808 bracket without some grinder-love.

[Mathew Boorman]

darn I blam the notification email format! [considers editing old post to hide evidence]

The dust covers all look the same now... bits of scrap in the corner scheduled for 'archiving'. Further grinding will be applied as and when required.

[Mathew Boorman]

Thread revival (rally cancelled)

The RX7 Rotors seem a bit dear at $139 each (ACT Brakes).

I'll look through the volvo ones. Is there anything else that might be cheap and right sort of sizes, I guess the higher volume oz cars?

Ideal is 4 bolt 110 pcd, 206mm or 230mm diameter, 9-13mm thick.
The RX7 offset is 50mm, but I'll try and measure what I really want shortly.
Offset 45-50mm depending on rotor thickness.

Unless I am way missing something, I figure if I get about a 230mm or 206mm rotor at the right offset I can fit the calipers and brackets I already have from the front end with some simple grinder work to the brackets.

Does the centre hole size matter? The axles wont have the centre spigot, so I assume not.

m@

[BEN]

i dont know what size disk you are after, but Toyota AE86 GT rear disks might work, they fit under 13" wheels, 4X114 PCD, and are well under $100 from anyone who can supply RDA disks.

Ben